Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Anyone having a CP-650 "freeze up" and lose control?

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Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 11-19-2005, 04:49 PM:

We have had a "mysterious" (for lack of a better way to describe it) experience with our CP-650: It apparently "freezes", in that the master fader refuses to move (or, at best, moves up or down very slowly), and the format select buttons become inoperative. It still seems to pass sound through, maybe in "bypass" mode, but for the most part is unresponsive to commands. We have remedied this by re-booting the system, but that can be inconvenient if the show is running.
This is actually our second CP-650, we changed out our original unit for precisely the same reason: freezing up.
We have been leaving the system on 24/7, and I'm wondering if the daily boot-up sequence might be better for the system. Is anyone out there leaving their 650 on constantly, and having any such problems?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-20-2005, 01:07 AM:

Wonder if the OS in that system needs to be reinstalled since sounds like something inside is starting to decay.

..maybe the power supply could be decaying and not putting out enough "juice" to the system. Try a swapout between units with the power supply and see if the power supply could be the culprit. They do go without letting you know.

Course, I'm relating to CP-500's and CP-55's with this sort of problem, but wonder if CP-650's could do the same....

..just some ideas to begin with....

-Monte

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 11-20-2005, 02:27 AM:

I had that problem when I fried a circuit board. Get it checked quickly!

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 11-20-2005, 02:46 AM:

Do you have remote faders?

Posted by Fabrice Dubourg (Member # 1635) on 11-20-2005, 12:27 PM:

any automation connected to the cp650 ? if so, try to disconnect automation connector and/or remote fader

Posted by Raphael Friedland (Member # 3453) on 11-20-2005, 04:03 PM:

We did have the same problem in our cinema.
It happened a few times, at first we solved it by rebooting then we added a power conditioning from FURMAN and that solve the problem

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 11-20-2005, 06:11 PM:

NO remote fader, and no automation. This is a completely manual operation. We've left the system "on" at all times because of some other elements in the system we did not want to power down.

But now that the second CP-650 (which is 100% new hardware, direct from Dolby, and has been installed for about 2 months now) is getting the same problems, I'm beginning to think that there possibly is some connection to never being turned off. Accumulated error messages, perhaps, from long periods of no signal (I know, doesn't make much sense!) or other data somewhere, which is (apparently) cleared by shutting it off.

Posted by John Vincent, Jr. (Member # 1791) on 11-21-2005, 08:24 AM:

We had the exact same problem you describe- went through much troubleshooting and swapping of cards and finally got a replacement 650. We would re-load the software, it would disappear for while, then reappear, leading us to believe the memory chip that holds the software was corrupted.

The ONLY other thing with us that might have caused the problem was our booth monitor failed and was replaced at the same time (Comp. Eng. MS-55), we think there may have been some stray voltage coming out of our booth monitor back into the 650. But we were never able to verify it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-21-2005, 08:35 AM:

Dirty power is the number one cause of digital systems corrupting themselves
I use a UPS that provides the output power via the inverter and battery all the time and have almost put an en to all te dsp stuff loosing their settings

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-21-2005, 08:49 AM:

Ahhhhhhh, the truth about this processor slowly reveals itself.....

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-21-2005, 09:13 AM:

Mark said "Ahhhhhhh, the truth about this processor slowly reveals itself....."

Mark I have had the logic in even Panastereos lock up because of dirty power

Dirty power is the number one cause of many premature electronic devices failing

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-21-2005, 11:11 AM:

The CP650 remains the most reliable processor I have ever worked with, bar none. We do have Tripplite IBAR-12 or LCR-2400 in all of our racks.

We have had two power supply failures.

Steve

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 11-21-2005, 02:49 PM:

A UPS most probably will solve the issue if its not too late and a chip inside has said goodbye to this sweet world! Is something we always use on cinema processors down here in Cyprus. But if you had the same problem with the previous processor maybe you should check your connections between booth monitor/amps/projector etc. Check for any strange voltage passing through. Also check that the power socket of the processor gives a stable current which is not fluctuating. If it is fluctuating, most probably that is your problem. Do you have an identical screen or is it a single screen theater? If you have an identical you could try swapping the processor with another screen (but you need the software to download the data and reload on the other one and vice versa). If though you don't have the technical ability to do it, is better that you bring an experienced technician to mess around and try to find the problem.
D

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-21-2005, 09:04 PM:

quote: Gordon McLeod
Mark I have had the logic in even Panastereos lock up because of dirty power

Dirty power is the number one cause of many premature electronic devices failing

Youze guys know I'm going to raz you about the 650 at every opportunity. Can't say I've ever seen that happen to a CSP around here. I know Canadian hydro is a bit shaky at times. I remember how bad Keith had it up there... especially in the summer.
Actually all of the 650's we've installed have been completely trouble free.... if they only sounded good...... Donno if they ever had any software updates done or not... they're not in my servicing area.

Mark

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-21-2005, 09:27 PM:

Mark, if your CP650s don't sound good, there are only a few obvious problems at hand:

*Crappy speakers
*Poor acoustics
*Lousy RTA setup (don't you use an R2?)
*Piss poor tech

So which one is it? My CP650s sound absolutely fantastic!

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 11-22-2005, 02:18 AM:

Have to agree here, the CP650 has been, for us, very reliable, the odd one dumped it's memory, but as long as you don't have more than one remote fader they are fine. Can't say I've any complaints about the sound from them either.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-22-2005, 05:52 AM:

By far, the 650 on analog is the very best Dolby processor ever made. Both SR and 2:4 channel are performed digitally with breakthrough technology. With red LED readers, analog is very competitive with digital. I sell a fair amount of "SR only" 650's.

Brad: as regards the R2; I have personally seen techs who could walk around the auditorium, listen to pink noise, and then set EQ perfectly. (verified with hand held analyzer.) I can's, I still need the ARTA 80.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-22-2005, 08:19 AM:

Actually none of the above....

JBL 3-Ways
QSC Amps
BACP readers for both tracks
Cut only EQ for the most part
Really good acoustics... Custom wall panels
Of course they're aligned with the R-2

It might be the USL VX Digital X-over although they sound just fine at other locations with the CSP 1200 and Sony's. The Sony 3000's at that site also sound just fine on the same amp/x-over/speaker combination.

I have heard from several techs that early software versions did not sound quite as good as the later versions. These units have always had a bit of stridency on the high end that was just not very pleasing. Its more apparent in analog than in SRD but its still there to some extent in SRD as well.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I have personally seen techs who could walk around the auditorium, listen to pink noise, and then set EQ perfectly.

You must be referring to the man whose name and speakers we can't mention here [Eek!]

..... Well those too sound tons better set up properly with an R-2....

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-22-2005, 09:09 AM:

Not refering to the same guy; BUT (I find it difficult to defend that particular guy) at least he LISTENS before he leaves. I cannot tell you how many "technically perfect" room tunings I have heard that looked good on the meters but were totally inarticulate when used with programming material.....usually techs from NYC. Louis

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-22-2005, 09:48 AM:

I had one tech, Carlos, who could tune by ear and meter with excellent results. His background is music and he is making great money as a film composer and University professor teaching music and studio recording...he got tired of tight and tone deaf cinema owners and nervous managers [Razz]

The other extreme, who will be nameless, never trusted the $6000 + sound alinement kit we supplied and put an EQ "smile" ( boost bass and treble )on the settings by ear [Roll Eyes]

He talents where elsewhere (electrical engineering)and he was quickly reassigned [Cool]

Most of our racks where supplied with surge and power protection devices built for us by SurGeX and in some situations with dirty or generator plant power we would add UPS systems. In our experience, CP650 and DTS have more protection issues versus CP500.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-22-2005, 07:08 PM:

quote: Richard Fowler
In our experience, CP650 and DTS have more protection issues versus CP500.

I have to agree. We have only lost CP-500 settings but this last version of the 500 software has been rock solid for us even in rough power areas.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Not refering to the same guy; BUT (I find it difficult to defend that particular guy) at least he LISTENS before he leaves.

Louis..... Its funny that we can all talk about that person and everyone knows who we are talking about...... Guess he can get rid of his name all together and everyone will still know who he is and who we are talking about [uhoh]

. Yes, he listens.... and those are the most expensive listening sessions I've ever experienced! careful, pretty soon we won't be able to post "that guy" on any thread either.....

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-22-2005, 07:41 PM:

Pete, I have several CP650 installations with more than one remote control...in fact my remotes tend to start at 2 and some have 3 (one by each machine and a fader only downstairs).

Dolby has acknowledged the issue and fimware 2.3.x.x. will take care of the remote fader issue...additionally, older CP650s will need a component on the mother board changed (Takes about 5 minutes once you have the unit out of the rack...I've done about 2 or 3). In each instance, the remote control issues vanished. The firmware is still in Beta, I think but its release is eminate.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-22-2005, 10:42 PM:

You guys are nuts. The man who is given credit as listening to a system he tunes before he leaves is doing just that, listening. The only "tuning" is very slight adjustments to the course bass and treble controls. If you think I am kidding, go look at EQ cards from different installations of his. Doesn't matter if they are in the same complex or 1500 miles away...it doesn't even matter if the auditorium seats 300 or 1200...the EQ is exactly the same. [Roll Eyes]

(That's also why he can tune a theater in half an hour, including time to run a test reel.)

I will agree though that techs who dial in an EQ by their RTA and then leave shouldn't be tuning systems. Those systems always sound horrible because they are almost always over-EQ'd.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 11-22-2005, 11:16 PM:

Are you talking about [Eek!]

Voldemort

Posted by Gustav Viem (Member # 3750) on 04-27-2006, 03:25 PM:

We also had this problem with CP650 freezing up, or become very slow to respond on commands. Turn the fader and after half a minute or more it responds.. Rebooting always fixed the problem. This happened from time to time in all our 6 new screens with new CP650s.

We was told that Dolby knew about a problem when using the digital inputs on the cat 790 option card. When switching to or from this digital input problems could appear. I think Dolby said it is going to be fixed in the next firmware upgrade.

In Norway we have the commercials run from a PC with 5.1 sound and an HD image on a videoprojektor. The digital sound from the PC was connected to the digital input on the option card on the CP650.
When we heard about Dolby haveing problems with this input, we started to use analog sound from the PC connected to the 6ch. input on the CP650.

Since then we haven't had any more of the freezing problem!

-Gustav-

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-27-2006, 05:10 PM:

Yes, this is a known problem. It only affects those units that use the AC-3 decoding from the Option I/O inputs. I believe you have firmware 2.2.5.x. Version 2.3.x.x will fix this problem.

Gotta love software engineers...they are always one revision away from perfection.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 04-28-2006, 12:10 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
*Lousy RTA setup (don't you use an R2?)

I keep hearing about this unit. Is there any more information I can get about this RTA? I may be interested in upgrading my RTA. [beer]