Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Cleaning / Cleaner Suggestions

This is topic Film Cleaning / Cleaner Suggestions in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Michelle Puetz (Member # 3274) on 11-30-2005, 09:32 PM:

Hello everyone,

I'm been working at a theater for a couple of years now that specalizes in archival / revival / classic / foreign cinema. We have two screens & project reel-reel on a pair of Simplexs and Kinotons.

A lot of the prints we get in are extremely dirty from years of use and abuse. I've been weighing the pros & cons of investing in some sort of a film print cleaner to try to attack some of the surface dirt and plastic reel dust we encounter on a daily basis. I feel like we could dramatically improve our presentation by getting rid of some of the dirt that clings to, particularly, the heads and tails of reels from prints that have been built.

Any thoughts on the subject? Any cleaners you suggest? Anti-stat? PTR? I've used PTR cleaners on 35mm neg before and found them quite simple, effective, and easy to use, but I know that a lot of folks really don't like them for prints.

Any and all advice is welcome! Thanks!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-30-2005, 10:15 PM:

Welcome to Film-Tech! You've come to the right place for any sort of help needed pertaining to the film industry. Bookmark this site for future inquiries, comments and just plain good conversations with fellow "film-rollers."

Head here for the best stuff in the world and the cleaner to use this cleaner with-the Kelmar Media Cleaner.

Stay away from PTR roller assemblies. They work, but don't work since the particles on the rollers eventually head back on to the film when the rollers have lost their stickyness.

good luck-Monte

[ 12-01-2005, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-01-2005, 08:06 PM:

Monte said, "Stay away from PTR roller assemblies. They work, but don't work since the particles on the rollers eventually head back on to the film when the rollers have lost their stickyness."

That's the first time I've heard this claim. Can you substantiate it?

The wisdom here on F-T seems to be that PTRs are of limited effectiveness, and that as they wear they may fail to remove dirt from film (and that FilmGuard can be much more effective at heavy dirt removal). But I've never heard it claimed that they PTRs will actually add dirt to a print. Are you sure about this?

--jhawk

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-01-2005, 10:04 PM:

The problem with PTRs is that they do exactly what they claim:

Particle Transfer Rollers effectively transfer the dirt from one part of a print to another.

PTRs have their place, but a commercial 35mm cinema isn;t it, IMO.

-Aaron

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-02-2005, 02:03 PM:

Particle Transfer Roller (PTR) film cleaners are widely used in cleaning printing originals, films during telecine transfer or scanning, and prints that cannot have even traces of chemicals on them (e.g., IMAX prints that come into contact with a field flattener, archival materials).

Admittedly, if the PTRs get completely loaded with debris, addtional debris will not stick to the PTR, and can get redeposited. By design, they leave no residue on the film, so they cannot provide any lubrication properties as FilmGuard does. But PTR cleaning is widely used in many successful applications in the film industry:

http://millimeter.com/pressroom/video_kodak_receives_epa/

quote:
Eastman Kodak Company received the 2003 Stratospheric Ozone Protection Award from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency in recognition of Kodak's commitment to reducing ozone-depleting chemicals through the development of Particle Transfer Roller (PTR) technology for cleaning motion picture film. The Stratospheric Ozone Protection Award, presented as part of Earth Day celebrations worldwide, recognizes a commitment to helping prevent the release of ozone-depleting chemicals. Kodak was one of only four companies worldwide honored in 2003...

The Particle Transfer Roller was developed by Kodak in 1989. It is a specially molded soft polyurethane roller that captures dirt and dust through contact adhesion without the use of solvents. Prior to 1990, nearly all motion picture film was cleaned offline in ultrasonic cleaning machines that used a solvent known as 1,1,1-trichloroethane for particulate removal.

Kodak developed and promoted use of PTR film cleaners that could remove dirt and dust from film online during conventional film printing at labs and while motion pictures are projected at cinemas. As motion picture film glides over the PTR, dirt and dust from the film stick to the roller. The process improves motion picture film quality while eliminating the use of environmentally damaging solvents. Over the past 12 years, PTRs have supplanted 1,1,1-trichloroethane as the primary method for cleaning motion picture film worldwide....
Kodak has disclosed the technology to customers and competitors for their unrestricted use. FPC, a Kodak subsidiary, sells PTRs to motion picture labs, telecine facilities, and theater operators. PTRs are used in thousands of movie theaters around the world, including most IMAX theaters. The solvent-free process has eliminated the use of several hundred thousand pounds of ozone-depleting substances....

"It's remarkable that such a simple, compact innovation has had such a positive environmental impact worldwide," said Jonathan Banks, President of BHP, Inc., a leading manufacturer of motion picture film printing equipment sold to film laboratories. "Kodak's technology is a step forward for the entire motion-picture film industry."

The PTRs themselves are environmentally friendly in that they can be washed with water and reused once they accumulate dirt. One set of PTRs can clean an estimated 20 million feet of motion-picture print film. PTRs are generally only discarded once they harden, become physically damaged, or lose cleaning efficiency.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-02-2005, 02:19 PM:

PTR's work exactly like the lint remover you use on your blue suit. When dirty they fail to work and then transfer dirt from one place to another. Louis

Posted by Kris Dirix (Member # 3012) on 12-05-2005, 03:40 AM:

Yeah, I love PTR's, I just have to clean (wash) the rollers frequently.

What to think about the TFS brush cleaner ????

http://www.techfilmsystems.com/fc5.htm

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-05-2005, 06:21 PM:

Brush cleaners can be effective, but any dirt loosened must be vacuumed away. And static charge often holds the dirt particles on the film surface so simple brushing without using an anti-static ionizer can leave dirt particles on the film.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-05-2005, 06:39 PM:

My experience with those waaaay over-priced "brush cleaners" has been mixed.

They seem to work OK **IF** you keep the brushes clean. The crap will build up on the rotating brush ends and harden and WILL scratch the film. Again, like the PTRs, for 35mm commercial use, too much time is required from "staff" to properly use them. Stick to the Kelmar cleaner w/Film Guard.