Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong Xenon Power Supply

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Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 12-21-2005, 12:09 AM:

Hi
I have a Strong Xenon Switching Power supply(One of the newer models)No. 62-80109 which died on me today-no output.
I have very little experience with these at the moment.
Any suggestions on how to fault-find this unit?
I read in the manual that most faults require the unit to be returned to Strong-Is this the case with all faults??

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-21-2005, 12:29 AM:

Is this the one with the 4 green and 4 red LED lights, and does any of the red LED lights show up, especially the "module" light is luminated?

If so, a fuse has opened up inside, meaning that a diode has shorted out inside knocking the service out of this switcher.

Usually a power surge from your power source causes this switcher to do this - and I've replaced three of these compact switchers do to power surges..

Best thing is to install line surge protector breakers in your main panel to control this for you, since these switchers have basicially the same hardware configuration that is in our power supplies that powers our computers, only in a larger scale.

What happens is that your supplier will call on STRONG to send out a new switcher, then when you get that new switcher, you send the defective one back for credit in the same box as the new one came in - only you'll be charged from the supplier for the tradeout.

If you don't send the one back, then you might get charged for a new switcher from your supplier since they get the bill from STRONG, thus do the exchange promptly.

-monte

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 12-21-2005, 02:10 AM:

I just had one blow today after a series of power outages. There are no user-servicable parts according to Strong, so you have to do a repair swap with them. Changing them out is really easy though. Ten minutes and you're good to go, while the shipment box they come in goes right back out the door with the old unit.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2005, 05:46 AM:

Actually we repair most of the 1-3K switchers in our own shops now and generally for way less than even our cost on a factory R/A unit. All the semiconductors are very inexpensive-off the shelf items with the exception of the four 120 amp diodes that are very available but have to be special ordered from IXYS. One order of 100 diodes is way cheaper than one Strong factory RA and 100 spare diodes will last U a very long time! This switcher is VERY easy to repair if you are familiar with them and are a qualified electronics tech.... but they do contain a ton of hardware(literally)!! Assuming that you have the 1-3K model there are two user servicable fuses inside them mounted on clips on the primary boards. You can remove and test these fuses before sending it away for a possibly unneeded and ludicrously expensive factory repair/exchange.....

BE SURE TO ALLOW THE UNIT TO SIT ABOUT AN HOUR SO THE MAIN CAPACITORS CAN DISCHARGE FIRST, OR USE A PLASTIC TYPE FUSE PULLER TOOL..... THERES NO NEED TO EXPEREINCE THE LIKES OF A DEFIBRILATOR UNLESS YOUR ACTUALLY HAVING A HEART ATTACK AND ARE IN NEED OF IT!

Follow the instructions on page 10, Paragraph 1, line 5 of the switcher manual on this site. These fuses will blow in a nasty power surge... these high current switchers will not tolerate any high voltage surges, spikes, or transients. Replace them ONLY with the exact same type fuse if you find them blown. After you install new fuse(s) it just might work again however if they fail right away then its a factory exchange, or for those out of the country or if you're a qualified tech and love to remove 6000 screws, or if you have a local dealer or electronic tech that can remove the 6000 screws and then repair them all the better for you. Also, while your tech has it torn apart replace the 3 amp breaker with a 3 amp fuse and holder. This will prevent failure of the step down transformers thermal fuse if that transformers secondary ever becomes shorted because of a lamphouse malfunction. It is a $150.00 transfomer to replace if it fails.... or a nasty factory repair/exchange That breaker just can't act quickly enough to save the transformer.

So you don't have future problems its wise to have a qualified electrical engineer select and install at least main panel surge protection... Don't just allow ANY electrician to do this, it has to be done right! Here we go sending folks to qualified BSEE's again [Big Grin]

. I prefer protection on each booth panel myself but at least on the main panel is the minimum if your location has switchers. Surge protection will generally eliminate most of the down time from failures of switchers that many have experienced...... They are actually extremely reliable when run on AC power that is within the limitations of the design.

So what did we learn here [Wink]

?

1. Always read the instructions for a piece of equipment in its entirety. If you had you would have known about the fuses...... [Razz]

2. Wait for the main caps to dischage [Eek!]

..... or better yet use an inexpensive plastic type fuse puller tool to remove and insert the new fuses for your own safety. Or so your heart doesn't become stalled....

3. Surge protection is extremely important for these switchers health.

4. Strong factory repairs on these are rediclously expensive [Roll Eyes]

!

13. I can be a real smart ass at the appropriate time [thumbsup]

.

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-21-2005, 06:57 AM:

Agreed, rarely do we ship these things back to the US, one of the old hands in the workshop is now a dab hand with them.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-21-2005, 08:42 AM:

quote:
BE SURE TO ALLOW THE UNIT TO SIT ABOUT AN HOUR SO THE MAIN CAPACITORS CAN DISCHARGE FIRST, OR USE A PLASTIC TYPE FUSE PULLER TOOL..... THERES NO NEED TO EXPEREINCE THE LIKES OF A DEFIBRILATOR UNLESS YOUR ACTUALLY HAVING A HEART ATTACK AND ARE IN NEED OF IT!

Haha, Mark, have you ever done this? Late one night, I had a DC ignitor opened up and was looking at the spark gap. I got a little too close and it felt like someone hit me in the chest with a sledgehammer. I had thought it sat long enough to discharge, and didn't think about shorting it out. It's not funny, at least at the time. I sat there and said "oh F***"

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2005, 08:52 AM:

Lets face it just about every electronic tech gets a good hit at one time or another. For me it was back about 1973 and it was a Zenith B&W tv chassis that I completed the ground path of the 375V B+ line for..... Zeeeeowieeee! I couldn't let go cause it was DC... the other tech next to me pulled the plug to kill it. It took two days for me to recover from that before I could move all my fingers completely.... One place I'm glad I never got it was working on the TTU-110 that I used to help maintain .... 18 kilovolts at 19 amps! I don't know if you'd still be in one piece getting hit by that much energy. Like walking through a power substation sort of thing.....

BTW: yea, I got pinged by the charge in an ignitors caps once but never the full force of an ignitor.... Things that make a heart stall....

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-21-2005, 09:02 AM:

Best to take a page out of broadcast transmitters: the grounding rod. I use a really good clip lead connected to ground. The other end I connect to my LONG screwdriver. Touch this to ANYTHING just before you touch it with your hand. Sometimes large sparks fly!

I think I'll just stay with my high-ripple IREM rectifiers! (Just replaced 8 Strongs with IREM last week.) Louis

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 12-21-2005, 09:07 AM:

Just after the ignitor discharged into me, I think I did also!!! [Embarrassed]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2005, 01:15 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I think I'll just stay with my high-ripple IREM rectifiers! (Just replaced 8 Strongs with IREM last week.)

Yep! And you can have em. I'll stick with both Strong and Christie in the rectifier field. We typically see 12K plus hours from Christie lamps operating off either of these brands.... never off an Irem, or with an Osram lamp. The reason the Irem's do have higher ripple is because they do have inrush current pretty well under control but they have traded off one for the other... they could control both if they wanted to. Being able to control both is one big advantage of electronic supplies....

Louis,

The TTU-110 had grounding rod gates that you had to pass through and open before you could walk into the rear of the xmitter. Just barely touching them shorted the hi-z out.The gates stayed grounded until you reset them. But looking for leaks on a hot transmitter also requires that one be inside the xmitter when its on the air..... You just stay in one spot only when its up.

Mark

Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 12-21-2005, 08:34 PM:

Thanks Guys for all the information.
Monte yes it is the one with the 4 green and 4 red lights and yes it was the Module light that came on.This has happened before at this site and the local repairer sent the whole unit back to the states(from what I've been told)-what a pain in the arse!!!!
Mark-thanks heaps for that information.I am a qualified electronics tech so I will have a go at repairing it.I downloaded the manual for it on the STRONG INTERNATIONAL site as I couldn't recognise the manual in the listings on this site.I'll have another look to see if it is the same manual.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2005, 09:22 PM:

Ian,

There are two modules in there with 2 large heatsinks each and one or both have failed parts on them. Check the 4 IGBT power transistors (three legs) and the 4 FRED diodes (two legs)... they are all in T0-247 plastic cases mounted on the heat sinks. There is one smaller transistor that you can also check. I have also had capacitors fail and or come loose from the board.

Those high speed IXYS diodes are amazing and unbelievably durable... 600 volt/120 amp capacity in that tiny plastic package... semiconductors have really advanced by leaps and bounds since I started in electronics. It takes but four of those to run a 3kw lamp!

Also there is one inrush limiter on each board and those also fail. I believe they are CL-60's or CL-30's or similar they look like black ceramic disc capacitors.... but they're not. When you replace them use the full lead length of the new device to keep them up off the boards. They run hot and on some older versions of that switcher I've found the board somewhat burnt and traces gone from the heat from those inrush limiters. I noticed on a new unit once that the factory is also doing this to stave off heat transfer to the pcb.

If I have time tommrrow or Friday I will take one apart get some photos and post some how to and what parts to check photos. Again, expect to have to purchase 100 of the IXYS rectifiers but that 100 is cheaper than one repair by the factory! All the other exact parts are off the shelf of several of the major electronics distributors.

All the parts are very inexpensive... So I typically replace the transistors, diodes...use new thermal pads, all electrolytic caps, and the inrush limiters. Total cost is about $100.00 US in parts but this also does involve ALOT of labor. One can't forget there is half a ton of hardware to remove to get the boards out for repair, then you'll want to clean the modules, sinks, and fans up. Never had a problem on the driver/cpu board..... Don't forget to replace the breaker with a 3 amp fuse and holder while you're in there.

Mark

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 12-22-2005, 02:27 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Assuming that you have the 1-3K model there are two user servicable fuses inside them mounted on clips on the primary boards. You can remove and test these fuses before sending it away for a possibly unneeded and ludicrously expensive factory repair/exchange.....

Did this today and actually had some spare fuses of the exact same kind in my parts room. Replacing them didn't fix the unit unfortunately. You weren't kidding about the six-thousand screws. Makes me glad I had a cordless screwdriver on hand!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-22-2005, 03:21 AM:

Yea, been there and done that as well thinking of a simple fuse replacement. "BANG!" when I powered the unit up after replacing one of the ceramic fuses that opened and then figured that something had shorted across inside that was way beyond my limited knowledge of these things.

Grabbed the screwgun, fastened up the panels with the 20 plus screws, called up our supplier for a replacement and waited..

-Monte

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-22-2005, 05:55 AM:

I had one or two module failures due to overheating of connections simply because cables inside hadn't been properly tightened at the factory.
Thanks!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-22-2005, 05:15 PM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
I had one or two module failures due to overheating of connections simply because cables inside hadn't been properly tightened at the factory.

Yes... ditto for me.... I am still under the belief that you can't trust any factory when it comes to high current connections! I always reccomend checking all new rectifiers no matter who makes them so all cables are properly seated and tourqued down.

Mark

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 06-10-2010, 01:32 AM:

It has been 1630 days since the last post.

Posted by Dennis Klus (Member # 5767) on 06-10-2010, 01:32 AM:

I know this thread is almost 5 years old but I wasn't sure whether to start a new one or just add to this one. I too have a Strong 62-80109 (compact xenon switching power supply) that failed recently (no output, red "module" led ON). I know it might be easier to just send it in for repair but the desire for self-sufficiency, tough times wanting to save money wherever possible, and a technical past tell me (with a little help) "I can fix this".

I've read here that this is likely due to failure of the hard-to-find diodes or the igbt's. I've only pulled a few components so far and have found 2 bad diodes. I have a few questions though:

01) Where can I find schematics for this supply? The manuals on this site seem mostly to be operator/installation.

02) Is there any other supplier/distributor source for the IXYS diodes other that IXYS? I have seen DigiKey's online catalog lists these but not in stock and having a 60pc minimum order. I only need 4, maybe 8 for spares, not 60 nor 100 and do not expect to ever use 60/100. If these truly are only available from IXYS, are there equivalent diodes more readily available from someone else?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-11-2010, 02:33 PM:

The only real way to fix them is to install matched IGBT's and IXYS diodes. I match all the semi's I use in repairing these rectifiers and I have never had one of my rebuilt's fail yet. There are also commutation diodes as well as some zeners that also fail on occasion... depends on how the power devices break down. Matching, especially the IGBTs assures equal sharing of the load by all semiconductors. This is not something I believe was done in the units when they were built at the factory, the best they probably did was use parts from the same lot. In order to match these I buy 100 pcs at a time and use a Tektronix Curve tracer with MOSFET adaptor to do the job. I always end up with 6 or 7 pieces that will not match into groups of 4.

Mark