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Posted by Matt Close (Member # 996) on 12-21-2005, 06:08 PM:
 
Can anybody give me a decent reason as to why the Australian distributors don't care about DTS? We have two distributors who have plainly said they will NEVER get DTS discs with films, and all the others are very patchy with supply.... Almost never ON TIME AND WITH THE FILM!

Just today, 'Cheaper by the dozen 2' & 'Just like Heaven' started without DTS. Apparently FOX has decided it's too much trouble to get the discs for Cheaper By The Dozen.... or at least that's what the guy at dispatch told me, so they won't be coming..... and UIP says the discs for Just Like Heaven MIGHT be coming.... we just don't know when.

Am I the only one thinking WTF????? I mean ... really ... WTF?????????

I have contacted DTS several times now about the problems we experience here in Australia.... their answer..... "it's not our problem" ...... If I had developed a system like DTS, I would take a great interest in ensuring my product was being promoted and used to it's full potential. When I ask about the possibility of online downloads for those of us who DO CARE, DTS tells me it won't happen because the studios don't want it to. Hmmmm.... Would the distributors and studios mind taking a lesser percentage of the box office seeing as we are receiving a LESSER product?????

The distributors don't care ..... DTS doesn't care that the distributors don't care...... And the studios don't care... they get paid anyway. Does anybody out there care? Does anyone know where I may direct my e-mail campaign next in the hopes of making a difference? ..... Or is digital cinema so close now that the 'powers that be' aren't interested in fixing this problem, as it will all go away when digital hits?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-21-2005, 06:29 PM:
 
I guess one point is missing at no time did anyone guarentee the disks in the first place
DTS has no control over what a studio does with the disks and who they choose to provide them too
the exhibitor is the one with the choice simply to say no disks we don't book the film not a expedient choice but the only one
 

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Posted by Nick Scott (Member # 2850) on 12-21-2005, 08:02 PM:
 
Im with Matt here i mean its a joke that we get screwed over. It was all good when DTS were selling the product to us it all sounded pretty straight forward but now u have to fight to get a set of discs. The company I work for has 7 DTS houses out of 11 and we only get 30% of discs for DTS films What a JOKE Luckily we have SRD on all screens but its just the fact of the matter.
Bottom line is there should be a legal case against whoever is responsible for getting discs to cinemas OR we should just simply ask DTS for our money back !!!!!!
 

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Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 12-21-2005, 08:20 PM:
 
Welcome to our nightmare Matt.
I also have been told by Fox that they won't send DTS discs.It costs me long distance calls every week to try and get the discs i need.I spent $20,000 on DTS gear which a lot of times does not get used.I have also been lied to by the Distributors when they said to me that the discs have not arrived in the country when they had already been sent out and received to other Cinemas.
DTS use to have a link on their site where you can complain if you weren't receiving discs,AFAIK that link does not exist any more.
When I first had my two XD-10's installed they both developed a fault not long after which took many phone calls and emails to DTS and over 7 months to sort out.The "fix"-a PCB in each XD-10 had to be replaced.
Matt I will help you in any way to try and solve this situation.
I'm sure the lady from DTS who get's on this site will read this,I just wander if she will do anything about it!!!!!
If this situation does not improve dramatically I will consider paqcking up my XD-10s and sending them back to the good ol' U.S. of A. and demanding my money back!!!!
DTS and the Distributors are just treating us like
 

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Posted by Matt Close (Member # 996) on 12-21-2005, 08:38 PM:
 
So, is it just Australia???? Do you guys in the USA have these dramas with DTS discs? We have 8 DTS screens and this simply is not good enough!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-21-2005, 10:50 PM:
 
I don't understand why the film distributors will not allow theaters or at least some kind of trusted party to download DTS CD images and burn them to disc.

It doesn't make any sense given this is the same movie industry that keeps floating the idea of beaming movies via satellite to theaters to show via digital video projection. What's the difference?

The film distributors only hurt themselves by doing this. When a theater is stuck with having to play a movie in optical analog stereo it can negatively impact sales. The lack of a 5.1 track could encourage at least a few viewers to wait for the show to appear on DVD. I've done this myself. I'm spoiled by 5.1 surround and expect it on just about any new movie release I pay to see at a commercial theater. Others certainly won't care quite so much about sound quality as I do, but subconsciously they'll know the movie was missing something and may not spread as much positive word of mouth about the show to their friends, family and collegues.

The film distributors need to have some kind of secure, password protected login server where theater operators can download and burn the images so they can show the movie in the best possible format -so the film distributors can make more money. The technology is there to allow film distributors to serialize and track every downloaded image. They've done other things to DTS discs to make it difficult or impossible to play the discs in Winamp or other applications. For 99.999999% of people, DTS movie print CDs are useless. In the end, the film distributors are just screwing themselves with this nonsense.
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 12-22-2005, 05:42 AM:
 
Question: Do Distributors in Australia have dedicated Technical Managers?

I know from experience here that if a Distributor does not have such a position (and many of the smaller ones do not), then the chances of getting DTS discs, or indeed satisfaction with any other technical issues, may be remote.

If a Distributor has only Marketing and Publicity roles prominent in its operations, unfortunately these people quite understandably will have no expertise in the technical area. Many may not understand what DTS is, nor even be familiar with the technical aspects of cinema exhibition in general.

It's not a criticism, it's just a thought. I find that when things aren't working, it's often to do with structural problems in the organisations involved. It's not down to laziness or negligence, but simply a lack of understanding and knowledge, or a lack of suitably informed and experienced personnel.

What do you think?
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 12-22-2005, 06:39 AM:
 
Has this problem been around since day one with DTS or just recently?

Also do exhibitors go with DTS because it's cheaper,or is it just you guys don't like the sound of SR-D??

A few years ago I asked some guys at the Village Jam Factory Cinemas why wasn't the film in DTS (considering at the time their advertising bragged on about DTS at this location) and their answer was that usually the discs come about some time later. They told us to come back in 2 weeks time to see (hear) the film in DTS. The film was Godzilla. I did end up seeing the film again and in DTS but it was down the road at the Astor Theatre instead.

I've noticed most places now don't advertise what format it is in and most patrons wouldn't care. Until recently a few Cinemas here had only optical stereo sound (no surround) They may not have center channels either until they got DTS units. Hope they get their discs!!

Hoyts was big on DTS here but have since added SR-D units from what I can tell.
Be interesting if a 70mm print of Titanic or Lawrence of Arabia arrives with no DTS discs!
 

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Posted by Alex Rolfe (Member # 1648) on 12-22-2005, 08:30 AM:
 

quote: Matt Close

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So, is it just Australia???? Do you guys in the USA have these dramas with DTS discs?

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We're a second-run (on campus) theater in Cambridge, MA, USA. The prints we get are frequently missing the DTS discs. However, with an email and a fedex account number, DTS is excellent at getting us discs in time for our shows. If you can't get discs, I'd guess it's the distributors and not DTS.

quote: Bobby Henderson

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I don't understand why the film distributors will not allow theaters or at least some kind of trusted party to download DTS CD images and burn them to disc.

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I'll add a second to that- being able to download disc images would save us a lot of hassle and shipping charges. On the other hand, I'd guess that many projectionists don't have internet access at work. And there's the whole piracy thing.
 

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Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 12-22-2005, 06:01 PM:
 
I dont seem to have a problem getting DTS disks they mostly come down with the prints or if I call they will send one down.I have SR.D in all screens and 4 screens with both so its really not a problem .Perhaps the reason could be that most cinemas here favour Dolby Digital as that seems to the format adopted by nearly all sites.

Steve
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 12-22-2005, 06:27 PM:
 
Where are the discs actually made? In the lab with the prints or elsewhere??.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-22-2005, 06:47 PM:
 
Same problem as in the 1920's....the disc is broken or does not show up. Thank God for sound-on-film. Suggest you budget for DSOF (SR-D). You are not going to be successful at back-leveraging a change with film companies. Louis
 

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Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 12-22-2005, 07:05 PM:
 
Everyone in OZ that is having this problem needs to flood DTS with letters saying that because you cannot use your DTS players you need to return them, and get your money back, so that you can buy SRD equipment. If you can put some hurt on DTS, they will make it their problem. Also write the studios and tell them that the DTS discs they are paying for, are not getting to you, and suggest that they ask for thier money back from DTS.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-22-2005, 08:20 PM:
 
Actually Bruce I don't think that would work since DTS has nevered guarenteed disks just as person with a SDDS unit has never been guarenteed every prnt with a SDDS track
The choice as to whop gets disks I believe rests totaly with the film company and the only leverage is refuse to play the title
 

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Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 12-22-2005, 11:45 PM:
 
John, for the record Jam Factory is one of the only locations I know of that boasts all three digital formats; Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS. I am pretty sure this is still the case. There were two theatres however that were DTS only - hence your problem. These may well have been upgraded now.

Since 1996 Village has had a 100% digital policy in their new Australian theatres and all have been Dolby Digital; some DTS as well. Greater Union Adopted this policy at around the same time. Reading also have 100% digital from what I can gather.

I am staggered that Hoyts not only has very few digital sound screens, until recently they still had many screens not red led equipped! Didn't BVI state they would refuse to supply those theatres that did not upgrade almost a year ago???

70mm DTS prints do not have mag tracks; it is one or the other. As a matter of interest, what theatres did you attend that did not have surrounds installed?

[ 12-23-2005, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: David Kilderry ]
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 12-23-2005, 01:11 AM:
 
I had enough problems just at one theater getting DTS discs that I completely gave up on DTS as a viable format and figured the name really stood for Do They Ship? I kept a list of films that were played with analog sound just because the discs came late or never came at all, it got to be pretty long. It happened most often with used prints shipped from other theaters, but there were a good number of brand-new prints of first-run titles that came with no discs also.
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 12-23-2005, 02:26 AM:
 
Seems to be plenty of DTS discs available here in WA and I am told that one of those films had to have some cuts made for OZ audiences which apparently meant that a new DTS disc had to be done. Maybe that is the reason for the DTS disc delay.
For what I understand of the DTS system is that even if a large chunk of film is removed the system can pickup where the sync should be and skip back into sync pretty quick.. maybe only a slight blip into optical mode.
So not exactly sure that film cuts would neccessarily mean a new DTS disc/s and being an optical stereo site ONLY don't really have a clue on the finer points of DTS.
But I have noticed that when playing DVD's on the home theatre and I can choose between DTS and Dolby Digital the DTS sounds better to my ears. So if I was DTS equipped I would be hunting those discs out to.
When the junkings go on I see piles of DTS discs going into the bins and on a couple of occasions I have been able to grab some to use as parrot scarers to be hung on strings in my fruit trees.
Use enough and they work well flashing away in the sunlight and upsetting the pesky birds. Neat recycling
We actually get some fruit now.
Lindsay

Edit, Just started making up Wallace & Gromit Were Rabbit for New Years eve shows and guess what??? packed inside was the DTS discs.
Wonder if they would better in the trees terrorising the local parrots... they did get rid of the Were Rabbit.
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 12-23-2005, 06:08 AM:
 
David, the session of "Godzilla" at the Jam Factory was in SR-D but I was told that the only reason it wasn't in DTS was that the discs had not arrived. I did see "American Pie" there and remembered the DTS flying logo trailer at the start. Not as bad as Crown Casino though where we were told that the film was showing in both SR-D and DTS at the same time in same single theatre!! I mention that it can only be one or the other at any given time, but the dude begged to differ. And no the film was not showing on 2 screens. Crown Casino was put on my never again list a long time ago.

In regards to no surround it may have been Doncaster but don't qoute me on it, I had a discussion about it with a Village projectionist during miff this year. He mentioned that lack of amplifiers would be the reason.

quote: David Kilderry

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John, for the record Jam Factory is one of the only locations I know of that boasts all three digital formats; Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS.

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Yes SDDS in the famous Cinema 10?? It's a shame that processor was moved from the VCC. That's all that place had going for it. I saw a tonne of films there in SDDS . Good presentation at the VCC has sadly gone down memory lane . Then again where can you good presentation at all nowadays.
Also in regards to the 100% digital, that's great but if it fails (and it did often) you're up shit creek. A lot of the time the SR sound was awful. I experienced this at Jam Factory, Sunshine and Crown Casino. And the reson I was given for this by one manager... well it was absurd to say the least.

quote: David Kilderry

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I am staggered that Hoyts not only has very few digital sound screens, until recently they still had many screens not red led equipped! Didn't BVI state they would refuse to supply those theatres that did not upgrade almost a year ago???

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I'm staggered people go to Hoyts full stop
 

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Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 12-23-2005, 06:46 AM:
 
We are on a University campus, screen once weekly, and have all three digital systems. We do get discs regularly but do not use them often, prefering to rely on the best digital sound SDDS. We had a print of "Flightplan" this week. Someone had written analog on the head of reel 1. Sure enough, SR-D failed throughout the film, but we were running in SDDS anyway - not one problem - but could have used the DTS as backup.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2005, 03:06 PM:
 
I don't think its the film companies to blame completely. DTS isn't known for having the best of customer relations, nor support. I doubt the film companies don't even want to deal with them or try to work things out because of DTS's piss poor attitude.

Mark
 

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Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 12-23-2005, 08:54 PM:
 
You are testing my memory now John. Doncaster upgraded to Dolby CP 65 from Eprad Starscopes in around 1998, it coincided with the Warner Bros Studio store opening there. It always had amps and speakers for L,C,R and surround from that time and at least a good period before that.

Frankston was the last Village Melbourne location to run just centre and surround with Eprad Starlets in all four theatres. Cins 1 and 2 were upgraded to Dolby CP65 in around 2002 and L and R channels were added with amps to both screens. Cins 3 and 4 had closed at this time. Later Cinema 1 was upgraded to DTS, this equipment remained I understand when it was taken over by Peninsula Cinemas. They operate it today as a discount house with day and date films, against the two new multiplexes in the area run by Village and AMC. It is a war down there between the three companies.

All Village theatres from my memory at least operated surrounds, even going right back to the 1980's. They mostly operated Eprad Starlets and Starscopes with Super Starscopes in the 70mm houses. All are now Dolby.

Some Cinema Europa theatres have been accused of having no surround channels, but they were cleverly hidden into the velvet diamond patterns in the walls.
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 12-24-2005, 02:13 AM:
 
Quite a memory you have there David. I'm just going by what was mentioned to me by the projectionist. Maybe he was referring to an earlier time. They have moved to DTS now it seems. I'll stand corrected if they did in fact have surrounds.

quote: David Kilderry

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Some Cinema Europa theatres have been accused of having no surround channels, but they were cleverly hidden into the velvet diamond patterns in the walls.

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Heh I noticed that first time I went there back in 1998 or maybe it was 1999, to see "PI". You just need to look a little closer. There's one auditorium there that's quite good. The surrounds may have been hidden but they are present none the less. Can't say the same for other art house cinemas, maybe excluding Cinema 1 & 2 at the Kino Dendy.
Shame Village did not install more SDDS playback instead of DTS.

I hope all those with problems getting discs for DTS solve the issues.
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 12-31-2005, 06:59 AM:
 
Bottom line is that if the film is made in DTS, i.e. the format is one of the film's release mix formats, then you should get the discs - period.

Surely, there is some sort of contractural obligation to supply the format if it is selected at the mix stage.

It's ludicrous really. Imagine a film made in SR.D, but when you get the print there's no data between the perfs because someone couldn't be bothered.

Or, you book a 3-D film (say, Sharkboy and Lava Girl) and the distributor will not supply the glasses!

And I don't buy the line that DTS are poor with customer relations, etc. They've got some really great people there, and we always get discs in this part of the world.

Nope, IMHO it goes back to the way the industry has gone generally, with theatrical presentation becoming marginal, and the real action being with the DVD release. I mean, how many DVDs have their DTS tracks omitted by mistake or because someone "forgot" to encode them? Come on!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-31-2005, 12:42 PM:
 
I'm not too surprised DTS would be good about getting discs to theaters in Ireland. The fellows who developed the APT-X100 codec in DTS Theatrical, as well as the DTS CAC codec in the home system, are from Ireland.

At any rate, the discs ought to be getting to theaters just about anywhere.

I think the problem lies in distributors and other film depots having old, inaccurate records. For the first couple years after our Carmike 8 theater opened in Lawton, many distributors still had this city's theater listings wrong. The 8-plex came dangerously close to not getting "Independence Day" like it was supposed to. I personally called Fox' Dallas office and confirmed they did not even know our 8-plex existed, much less it having two THX-certified DTS-equipped auditoriums (this was 1996).

Once everyone got their records straightened out the theater received discs on just about every release. There's only two movies that come to mind that missed discs since then: "The Edge" (the print had time code, but I don't think it ever had DTS discs anywhere) and "LA Confidential" (I was pretty peeved about that one, but great movie anyway).
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-05-2006, 02:49 PM:
 
Well that's good to know Bobby - it's a small world!

Is there some way the distributors can be informed if a site opens with, or upgrades to DTS so they know to send them discs?

Or - considering the relative costs of making and duplicating discs compared to the overall P&A budget, would it be only slightly more expensive to send discs with all prints irrespective of whether the receiving venue can play the discs or not?

(This goes back to my suggestion that the DTS disc should in effect be seen as a physical part of a DTS timecoded print).
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-05-2006, 10:47 PM:
 

quote: Brian Guckian

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Is there some way the distributors can be informed if a site opens with, or upgrades to DTS so they know to send them discs?

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