Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strange part On Projection Head

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Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 12-25-2005, 02:20 PM:

Ok, on picture down, with arrow is marked part what I'm don't know what is purpose off?

This is Ernemann IV projector and I'm wonder what that part using for?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-25-2005, 03:00 PM:

It is I believe part of the pivot assembly that shuts the machine down or at least closes the dowser if there is a pile up above the trap

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 12-25-2005, 03:43 PM:

No, this part haven't got anything with that, for that purpose is black part behind this. If film breaks, upper loop pull up that black part behind this one where is arrow and then dowser closing.

On some machines here there is also pivot assembly for shutting machine what working same, but without this part, i saw this part only on older machines.

This is another picture, it's not good but...on arrow marked with number 2 is part for shutting down projector if film burn or got broken. But part what i'm serching for what is using is marked with arrow 1.
Could now somebody know what this is using for?

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 12-25-2005, 04:17 PM:

I don´t know all the right english terms to use here, but
I´ll give it a try to explain it. In the "old days" when
film was highly flamable, the projection ports had trap doors
that fell down in case of fire, to prevent fire to spread to
the auditorium. The trap doors were held up by a string that
was connected to the part you are asking about. If the film
caught fire in the projector, the string burnt off and the
trap doors fell down.

Hopefully you understand what I mean? Or perhaps someone else
can explain it in a better way?

Thomas

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 12-25-2005, 04:52 PM:

Yes i understand you very well, and I'm familiar with that both port windows (actually i got few in mine warehouse .-)) but that one i have got electromagnet to hold them while are opened, but may bee this is for older system with mechanical holder.

It would be nice to saw picture of system if someone has got it.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-25-2005, 11:10 PM:

If you go into the manual section of the old Simplexes (XL, E-7 and SuperSimplexes), you'll see this similar configuration above the upper loop set.

This was to release the fire dowser. For if the upper loop suddenly got too big, this raises the hoop, dropping the fire dowser thus immediately cutting the light from the film.

This was mandantory for the usage of nitrate film.

For your question on port windows, here is a pict of a booth that I used to work at many moons ago...

If you notice above one of the machines, is the chain that held the port window plates up. The chain had lead splice links every 10 feet, so if a fire was up in the booth, the lead would melt and the steel plates, being 3/16" thick would slam down over the portholes.

[ 12-26-2005, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 1542) on 12-26-2005, 06:52 AM:

For more detailed photographs of porthole shutters please follow these links.
http://www.cinephoto.co.uk/misc_other_21.htm
http://www.cinephoto.co.uk/oxted_projection_box.htm
This system is in a working cinema, and although not needed nowadays is still kept in working order.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2005, 12:04 AM:

Hugh,
I always enjoyed your site alot and just wanted to give a thanks for the effort you do keeping it up. It is refreshingly different [thumbsup]

. Have you operated at all those different locations? At work we have some of the DP-70 gate change box sets that have several of the theatres names on the side and they may relate to several of those cinemas on your list. I will see if I can get photos of the boxes for you so you have the names.... I believe Leicester Square is one of them... There must have been DP-70's in there before the Vic-8's.

That part of the Ernemann is almost identical to the same parts on Phillips FP-56 pojector..... causes the fire shutter in the Phillips to drop down if the upper loop rises up and trips it.

Mark

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 12-28-2005, 09:36 AM:

The device on the Ernemann machine was called "Protektor", if I´m
not mistaken. It shut the projector down in case of a film break
in the trap. But I think Marin means the "hook" on the axis of
the Protektor. It looks like a hanger for ties, and it was here
the string (I think it was made of cotton and gun powder!!!) was
attached that was connected to the projection ports.

The machine doesn´t look much like an Ernemann IV. Marin, are you
sure it really is one? If it is, I don´t think it was made in
Germany.

Mark. If you are reffering to the Odeon L Sq, I think they had
Victoria 10 before the V8. The Empire L Sq have/had DP 70´s.
Sadly, there´s only one left.

Thomas

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2005, 09:48 AM:

Thomas, You may be right.... That may be the change box we have and there are several others there that were brought over from Great Britan that we have ended up with as well. I will check on that tommrrow. How interesting it would be if it turned out we also have the machines that go with the boxes..... there's a better than not chance of that.

Mark

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 12-28-2005, 10:35 AM:

quote: Thomas Jonsson
But I think Marin means the "hook" on the axis of
the Protektor

Yes! I mean what that "hook" is for?

First picture i upload is Ernemann IVB and second is Iskra NP-21 (very similar to ernemann VIIB) but better [Wink]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-28-2005, 11:32 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
At work we have some of the DP-70 gate change box sets that have several of the theatres names on the side and they may relate to several of those cinemas on your list. I will see if I can get photos of the boxes for you so you have the names.... I believe Leicester Square is one of them... There must have been DP-70's in there before the Vic-8's.

Mark, they are different theatres; the Vic. 8s are at the Odeon Leicester Square, and the Odeon West End, also in Leicester Square, and the DP-70s were at the Empire. There were originally three of them, one was replaced by a FP-30 long ago, and I think another, more recently, by a digital projector. I'm not sure if the third one is still there. As far as I know, they haven't shown any 70mm for several years now. I haven't been up in the box at any of these theatres for many years; when I last saw it the Empire still had all three DP-70s.

One of the members here worked at the Empire, but I can't remember who it was.

There are pictures of all three theatres on Hugh's site. He also has pictures of just about all of the equipment that the Odeon has had over the years, except the current Cinemeccanica ones with large spools on the base, and the digital equipment. The Odeon also had two of the Kalee Vistavision projectors at one time, I believe that this accounted for half of the total production of this machine.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2005, 12:41 PM:

Hi Stephen,

I will definately get photos tommrrow and post them here. If we also have the machine to go with the boxes I would want to keep the boxes but if not then perhaps someone over there that worked those boxes would like to have them them. A little historical memento so to say. I am pretty sure that one of them says Empire on it. One may also say west end or somthing to that effect. There are also some very carved out curved screen aperature plates in those boxes too. Some are labeled for Ben-Hur exclusively, others are labeled for Sound Of Music and Lawrence Of Arabia.

Mark

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 1542) on 12-28-2005, 05:46 PM:

Hello Mark.
The Odeon Leicester Square started with 3 BTH Slimline machines. These were replaced with 3 BTH SUPA projectors with a Kalee VistaVision machine on either side making a line up of five projectors in a row.

In the 1960s the Vistavision, and SUPA projectors were replaced with three Vic 10s to enable 70mm to be shown. These were the machines that I worked with when I was there, and I liked them.
Sometime in the 80s the tens were themselves replaced by the Vic 8.

The Empire had three DP70 machines installed for the showing of Ben Hur, and they were still in use when I worked there in the 1980s.

The plate marked Ben Hur probably comes from the Empire. The other films that you mention I think were either shown at the Dominion Tottanham Court Road, or opposite at the Astoria Charing Cross Road.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 12-28-2005, 06:30 PM:

Empire Theatre London: It was about 1997/1998 the Number #I Philips DP70 was removed for the Kinoton FP30, it was about this time the Operators of the Cinema UCI ended the Laser Pre Show.

In 2000 I belived the remaining DP70's were rewired with inverters and Automation was installed and then Number #2 DP70 was removed about two years or so ago, to be replaced by a DLP Projector.

The DP70 projector was sold to City Screen for their new 5 Screen Cinema at Greenwich in London.

All remains with the 70mm at the Empire as far I know is Number #3 and #1 Spares in storage.

Perhaps with the new owners Ward-Anderson taking over early next year will se some investment made back into the Theatre and hopefully see some 70mm being screened.

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 12-28-2005, 09:54 PM:

I have a copy of International Projectionist from 1962 or 63
with pictures of the renovated Empire, Leicester Square. At that time there were two DP70's with Super Cinex lamps. The third machine was a Philips FP7 and a Peerless Magnarc. The theatre reopened with Billy Rose's Jumbo and the chief projectionist was Stanley Perry.
Bob

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-29-2005, 01:00 AM:

Prior to its "restoration", the Tucson Fox Theatre had an relatively intact historic booth. Projection equipment was missing, but original trailer bins were there, along with the port glass fire shutters, nitrate storage bins and nitrate storage rooms along with some of the original electrical equipment. Looking at recent construction photos, it is sickening to see how the "Foundation" managed to literally destroy a historic booth.

There is at least 1 other F.T. member, a very competitent tech with a ton of experience in the realm of historic cinema restoration who is probably sickened more than I about this ongoing butchery! Unfortunately, the Tucson Fox Theatre Foundation was unwilling to consult with theatres that have been accurately restored.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-29-2005, 07:24 PM:

Will, One theatre we service is the Washoe Theatre in Anaconda, MT. There are no words to describe what its like walking though this palace! All original and completely intact including most of the booth right down to the original pair of Super Simplex's. One now on a platter and one runs the previews, and the owner has no intentions of changing out the machines nor anything else unless he absolutely has to.... just one of the virtues of not having a board of fools to attempt to run(ruin) it. If you're ever up in that neck of the woods be sure to stop there.....

Mark