Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Lavezzi VKF sprockets for Prevost?

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Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-28-2005, 05:02 PM:

Do Lavezzi produce their vkf sprocket for Prevost machines?

I looked on RSEM but they don't seem to stock them for anything other than the USA machines.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-28-2005, 07:22 PM:

I don't think so, but if you have an old sample, they will make them for you. $$$$$$$$ Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2005, 08:37 PM:

Actually we may have them. I assume that you have a P-93.... We stock a custom VKF sprocket for the DP-70 that might fit or may be able to be easily mofified. Let me know the shaft diameter in millimeters and I'll check. I think the DP-70 shafts have a 12mm dia. but I may be wrong there..... it could be 14mm. To be honest LaVezzi is not all that expensive for custom stuff.... especially considering the quality product that you get. As long as you need quantity its alot less expensive getting custom parts made up than getting quantity parts from either Italy, Gernamy, or from BL$S. These sprockets in 100 quan. cost us so little as to not even matter much. We also stock many other custom and new/used parts for the DP-70.

Mark

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-29-2005, 03:14 AM:

Actually Mark, it's the 35mm intermittent sprocket for the P70. Getting it done custom made would be a problem for me because I was only thinking about getting one - not one hundred!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-29-2005, 08:15 AM:

Let me check and see since we also had DP-70 intermittent sprockets made up. These are fastened with the classic screw and nut through the center though, but the bore may be the same. Far as I know aren't the Prevost and Cinemecanica intermittent sprockets the same.....?

Mark

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-29-2005, 10:05 AM:

The bore on a P-70 sprocket is 10.005mm and in an emergency you can use the sprocket for a Phillips FP5.
The bore on a Cinemeccanica is 8mm..........

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-29-2005, 10:47 AM:

Yea, all the Phillips machines had the same dia. star shaft. Our DP-70 intermittent sprocket would fit it then but he'd have to drill a hole in the exact right place to secure the sprocket to the shaft with the screw and nut. No small feat with a hand drill on a hardened piece of metal! Easily done while disassembled....

Mark

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-29-2005, 11:11 AM:

If the sprocket fits but the bore/shaft diameter is a problem, I may recommend two possible solutions? I am unsure what the Rockwell hardness of a finished LaVezzi sprocket is, but if the bore is undersized, it can always be i.d. ground or, if the bore is oversized, a pressed in bushing might work? These are just suggestions on how to modify an existing sprocket to make it work.

K.

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-29-2005, 11:18 AM:

Mark, the Prevost sprockets slide on the shaft and then you tighten a nut on the end which presumably pushes out the shaft centre to create a friction fit for the sprocket.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-29-2005, 11:22 AM:

Thats very possible Will. We have done this before and use a giinding place that's local here. So far they have done very nice work for us. We also use them to do a clean up pass on sound drums and to widen the groove in the DP-70 sound drums. The VKF sprocket in the upper photo was bored out by yours truely on a lathe with carbide tooling and lots of coolant. We wanted one to place in service for 6 months before having the batch made up. Its well hardened metal I'd say a 55c to 60c or there abouts. Boring it out on the lathe was not easy but was certainly possible as you can see.

quote: Matthew Taylor
Mark, the Prevost sprockets slide on the shaft and then you tighten a nut on the end which presumably pushes out the shaft centre to create a friction fit for the sprocket.

Then it might work out for you..... Is the end of the sprocket notched to couple with a mating part on the movement? If so then we're out of luck since we didn't have the notch done.

Mark

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-29-2005, 11:54 AM:

No the sprocket is just plain with a 10mm bore.

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-30-2005, 06:02 AM:

Mark, do you reckon I could get hold of something that would work with this?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-30-2005, 08:21 AM:

I am going back to work today and eill check our DP-70 intermittent sprockets.... been home with a bad cold.

Mark

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-30-2005, 10:18 PM:

I checked our DP-70 intermittent sprockets and they have CS type teeth as on the original Phillips sprockets. We nixed doing the intermittent sprockets in VKF because of clearance differences with the 35mm gate bands. You might fond one of these sprockets to be of higher quality than the Italian sprockets which always seem to be a bit on the rough side. The DP-70 feed and holdbacks we had made are VKF though.

I would also still need to know if your star shaft has a keyed coupling point to lock the sprocket in one position when you install it... then you tighten it down by expanding the shaft with the set screw...... Ours does not have that keyed area at the end of the sprocket.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-31-2005, 01:56 AM:

I know in the good old days when a Norelco AA2 wasn't expected to run 70mm for some time...we used to sub a Brenkert 35mm intermittent sprocket for the intermittent sprocket on the Norelco.

Steve

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 12-31-2005, 09:09 AM:

The P70 intermittent sprocket is keyed like a Brenkert.
Bob

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-31-2005, 12:28 PM:

Actually my one doesn't have a notch - here's a couple of photos;

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-31-2005, 12:39 PM:

Hi Mark

Here are some helpful machining solutions for you.

If you need to indicate a part in on a 4-jaw chuck, but the part you are needing to work on cannot be marked-up because the holding surface is already finished, you can always make up a simple "split-sleeve" out of aluminum. It would resemble an AW-3 Center Ring...but the i.d should be the same as the work od before using the bandsaw to cut the slit.

But I also love potting/chucking collets....as well as making lathe "soft-jaws".

Ya, turning 55c-60c Rockwell on you lathe is quite a chore. It can really bog down your lathe, especially if you have a lower h.p. motor and lite gear train. You can always put an i.d or o.d grinding wheel onto your quick-release tool post. Keep in mind that Atlas actually made a grinding attachment for their lathes. The only bad thing about grinding on a lathe is that the grinding dust-debris can be bad for your ways, gibs and other parts, so cleanliness is very important.

Cheers

K

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-31-2005, 12:40 PM:

MAtthew,
If you can do with a top notch CS type sprocket ours should work just fine for you. At least its a hardened sprocket and would give longer life span than the non-hardened Italian sprockets typically do.

Unfortunately the Brenkert sprockets are an unobtanium item these days unless you happen to find a NOS one laying around, Wolk may possibly still have a few there on the shelf, there may also be a few down in the CLACO dungeon. The Brenkert too is a CS type sprocket. The Phillips 35mm sprocket will work fine but it has a ludicrous dealer net of over 400.00 per unit from BL&S!! Apparently US Kinoton decided not to have any more 35mm's made up made up state-side and now only supplies the costly German made 35mm sprocket. Thats why we had our own made up... at a fraction of the cost of the German made sprocket. Ditto for the gate bands and curved "James Bond" runner which we also had custom done and stock considerable numbers of in house. Our gate bands definately resist the grooving effect thats typical of the Kinoton supplied 35mm gate bands and hence ours have a far longer life span at much lower cost to the customer. All parts fit in place with no modifications required to the projector.

Will,
Thanks for the tips. If I have to do this sort of thing again to proto something I will have it ID ground to just unbdersize and then lap it opt to size myself. I did do the VKF sprocket bore in a split bushing in the 4 jaw chuck. Took me about 2 hours start to finish... good enough accuracy for a holdback or feed sprocket but not for an intermittent sprocket. Grinding the I.D., then honing or lapping the bore to exact size would be the only way on that part. Plug gauges would be needed to verify the I.D.!! Plus one would need at least a Hardinge HLV in top notch shape to maintain the accuracy.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-31-2005, 01:32 PM:

typically prevost sprockets have a good life span

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 12-31-2005, 02:17 PM:

Mark, I have sent you an email.

Gordon, the sprocket currently in there is not a Prevost-made sprocket. The old one I had was, but the teeth were hooked.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-31-2005, 03:58 PM:

While certainly pricey for US machines...the Kinoton intermittent sprocket for FP20/30 machines (not the "E" series which are 32-tooth)...are not over $400 dealer as has been posted above...they are $461.00 LIST price. Remember too that anything that comes to the US via Europe has a hefty 20-25% currency difference added on. Most of 2005 was trading at $1.25 to the Euro.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-31-2005, 04:06 PM:

Yea Steve but they USED to have them made over here and they were alot less expensive... when stuff is that rediclously expensive that shouldn't really be, thats the general route one takes..... We did and ours list for about $200.00 per unit.... Less than your cost from them... a slight difference in price for the exact same, or possibly better quality part. Really, there's absolutely no reason under the sun they couldn't do what a small dealer can do in an effort to maintain reasonable parts for their customers, or I guess they just don't want to expend the effort.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-31-2005, 04:19 PM:

Kinoton in the US has off and on had such parts made domestically...especially the Norelco AA2 sprockets.

We have a fair number Kinoton and Norelco badged FP20s running and the sprockets just haven't been wearing out to the point it has come up. If Kinoton America found that they were needing to supply volumes of sprockets, then I would think they would seek out domestic production...then again I'm sure Larry Shaw who frequents here could answer that one if he so inclined.

I noted that LaVezzi has the Kinoton FP38E sprocket on their display and in print adds so I presume they make it for Kinoton...at ShoWest they said was an OEM part only though.

As to the price...the purpose of my post was to correct a mis-statement..dealer cost is in fact not over $400 for the part and is in fact notably less.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-31-2005, 06:20 PM:

Hi Mark

I sent you a few p.m.'s via F.T. with some info for you. Did you get them?

Regards

K

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 01-01-2006, 02:17 PM:

Mark, did you receive my email with q's about your sprocket?

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 01-19-2006, 09:52 AM:

The reason we (Kinoton America) no longer have the 35 only sprockets made is simply lack of demand. Sadly, likely due to incompetent operators, there are far fewer DP-70/AAII's in operation now, however most of the remaining users apparently want to retain the 70 capability based on what they order from us.

Larry Shaw
Kinoton America
[Exclusive North American Distributor of Kinoton GmbH]
8 Goodenough Street
Boston, MA 02135-1903
Tel: 617-562-0003 x104 Fax: 617-787-4253
E-Mail: larry@kinotonamerica.com
Website:http://www.kinotonamerica.com

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2006, 10:11 PM:

Donno Larry,

I only know of two locations that run with the combo sprockets any more.... out of about 120 or so machines that I am aware of that are in daily use..... that location is one of just a few left that regularly runs any 70mm.

Mark