This is topic KING KONG credits cut off at mid point in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-01-2006, 05:54 AM:
 
I finally had the opportunity to see Peter Jackson's KING KONG on New Years Eve at Pacific's Kapolei #5 and enjoyed the film very much. On a scale of 1 to 5, I would give the film a 4. I am sure many of you are thinking this should be on the review page but something happened last night during the presentation that had upset me very much and I feel this topic belongs here. Everything was fine during the feature presentation with excellent projection and awesome sound but all of that was ruined when the projectionist made the screen go dark during mid way through the credits but allowed the soundtrack to continue to play. Because it was New Years Eve, the film played to almost an empty house and I was the only person who did not leave when the credits started to roll because I wanted to read it and enjoy the end title music. As soon as the credits was on, people who were coming for the last show at 10:30 were seating themselves and this is something I have never seen at any of Pacific's theatres including the Kapolei. The theatre Staff usually clean the auditorium before anyone is seated but last night was different. I was very upset at what had happened, I immediately went to the manager and was told that I was welcome to sit through 45 minutes of the conclusion of the film in another auditorium if I wanted to read the credits. I told her I did not have the time to do that and all she could say was "I am sorry about that and proceeded to walk away. I called her back and told her I paid to see the entire film and expect more than a "I am sorry about that" answer. She asked me what I wanted and I told her a Pass to see another movie would be nice because I was always given one in the past when there was a problem. Although I walked out of the theatre with a pass to see another movie, I was bothered by the manager's indifferent and couldn't care less attitude. For those of you who manage a theatre, how would you have handled this matter?

-Claude
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-01-2006, 09:31 AM:
 
Claude,

I still haven't made it past reel two! But what did matter here was the managers ignorant indifference. You definately did the right thing by not letting her just walk away from the situation.... But just use that pass to see some better film .

Mark
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-01-2006, 10:10 AM:
 
The turnaround may have been tight so the projectionist was told to cut the bulb so they could start seating for the next show. You didn't mention how much intermission time there was.

It could've also been a simple goof, where the projectionist (or someone in the booth) bumped up against a switch by accident and since the "movie" part of the show was over they figured it wasn't worth striking the bulb again.

Neither are acceptable, but there are a couple of reasons for you as to why that may have happened.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 01-01-2006, 07:48 PM:
 
Or an inept ticket-taker...
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-01-2006, 11:00 PM:
 
Brad,

Pacific has scheduled two evening showings of Peter Jackson's KING KONG in auditorium #5 at the Kapolei 16. One is at 7:00 and is the one I caught last night and the last one is at 10:30. I was in my seat by 6:45 and five minutes of commercials flashed on the screen at five minutes to the hour and a policy trailer followed by about 5 or 6 regular trailers went on at 7:00. The main feature started at 7:10 and I estimated the total running time of the entire show should end about 10:18. This would indicate that only nine minutes of intermission time was provided between these two shows. Regardless of how short the intermission, time was, we all know the film must completely go through the projector from the platter before it can be threaded again in the machine for the next show and I cannot see what the advantage was to let the screen go dark. The manager did call upstairs after I had complained to find out why the projectionist did what he did and his reply was " I thought everyone from the 7:00 show had left".

-Claude
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-01-2006, 11:23 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

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The turnaround may have been tight so the projectionist was told to cut the bulb so they could start seating for the next show. You didn't mention how much intermission time there was.

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quote: Brad Miller

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It could've also been a simple goof, where the projectionist (or someone in the booth) bumped up against a switch by accident and since the "movie" part of the show was over they figured it wasn't worth striking the bulb again.

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quote: Richard Hamilton

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If the turnaround is that tight, would you kill the lamp and re-strike 10 minutes later?

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Many theaters have a policy to always run on automation and not to override it. In this example, let's say a well-intentioned projectionist was trying to not strike the bulb again, so he flips the manual switch on and closes the lamphouse douser. Then he rethreads and starts the next show...but forgets to turn that manual switch off. Ooops, projector and lens damage! In a multiplex situation, I tend to agree with that argument. Better to strike the bulb a few extra times that could've been prevented than to risk something like that happening, because in a multiplex booth the movie could end and the projectionist be on the other end of the building.
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-02-2006, 01:06 AM:
 
Brad,
Point taken, and understood.

Rick
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 01-02-2006, 05:47 AM:
 
I've also experienced patrons let in for the next show while the credits are still going, it's damn annoying particularly when they start talking loudly. My biggest gripe though is the staff that come in to clean and make all this noise and give you a nasty or weird look for staying for the credits.

At one show I walked into the auditorium to find the curtain open, and nice lots of white on the screen. Obviously the dowser was open and the projector running with no film threaded. This went on for a few minutes.
It was then shut, curtains were closed (at which point others in audience clapped and cheered) and then the film was threaded and we were underway. Funny enough I learnt from one projectionist at this location that a number of lenses were damaged due to the automation starting the projector before the running late projectionist threaded up the show. And mind you this is only a 4 screen complex.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-02-2006, 01:42 PM:
 
I think Claude is more upset by the manager's attitude than the actual mishap, although neither should have happened. And yah, it was done on purpose to get that last show in as fast as possible.

But Claude, we are running up hill when it comes to getting that attitude of "what's the big deal, it's only credits" changed in the multiplex environment. If the management has that attitude, which obviously this manager has, then it goes without saying that everyone on down the line will have it as well. That's why when those pimply cleaner/usher/tickettaker/concessioneer/projection "attendant" drones come in sweeping dirt on your feet and giving you nasty looks, it's no surprise. There is poor showmanship which we are all used to, to the point where we expect it (hence the familiar "I'll wait to see it on DVD in my home theatre") and then there is this actual shutting off the lamp during the credits, or ANTI-showmanship. And then exhibtion moans and groans like 10 year olds about attendance being down. They get what they deserve.

But then again, not to aim critisism solely at the mulitplex, assembly-line cinemas, this kind of lousy attitude is pervasive in plenty of other "service industries." And given that our economy has moved from a producing economy to a service economy, you would think a higher level of customer care would be our calling card. But it's not; we still act like being mediocre is acceptable. So not only don't we no longer make stuff, be we are nasty when we "serve" stuff that others make! Wait till the Sleeping Giant -- China -- wakes up. They MAKE stuff....LOTS of stuff, but they are respectful and courtious as well. We better start learning how to do that bowing thing, and fast.

How would I have handled that kind of thing in my theatre? I would have assured you that this was not our policy and that I would look into it immediately. I would also have assured you that I will make it my personal business to find out what happened and why and that I will make sure it would not happen again. You would have been given two passes and coupons for free large popcorns and sodas. In my tone and attitude, you would have know that I was doing that respectful bowing thing. In other words, your ass would have been royally kissed so that I wouldn't loose you as a customer or worse yet, have you leave my theatre with an A-Frame around your neck proclaming to everyone that they shouldn't see films in my theatre.

Customer service is simple courtesy, not brain surgery; why so many managers seem to have been lobotomized is beyond me.
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-02-2006, 02:05 PM:
 
Had that happen to me at the end of Narnia at the Century Santa Fe 16 on New Year's Eve. There were three or four of us credit watchers left as the house crew came in to clean up for the next show. Said crew was loudly kicking and throwing the plastic child booster seats ahead of themselves as they worked along each row. Very loud, very rude, very annoying. At least they didn't give us the glaring eyes bit.

Had that happen to me at an anime film festival screening at the Long Beach Carpenter PAC. One of the ushers got in my face about staying to watch the credits of Barefoot Gen (Hadashi no Gen). He stood between me and the screen saying there's nothing left to see. Guess he wanted me out of there since everyone else was leaving.

Cutting credits off seems to be quite a common practice. It does get people to leave sooner. I suppose if you do that enough times in a day you might squeeze in another show. On shows like Narnia it does lose a little scene inserted after the cast credits, but it's only a little teaser. Quite unimportant. If it was me cueing the print I wouldn't put the "house to half" cue on until after that scene. But that's just me.
 

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Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 01-02-2006, 04:49 PM:
 
I strongly disagree with what happened as well. It is wrong to let patrons in during end credits, even if the theatre is empty. Perhaps the projectionists didn't see anyone in the theatre.

However, does anyone else feel that credits are getting out of control anymore? I think a lot of these problems would be solved if credits were displayed at the beginning of shows again. Of course, Hollywood needs to stop naming everyone and their brother in the credits. I believe it was The Exorcism of Emily Rose that went so far as to thank the Honeywagon Driver! Come on now!
 

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Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 01-02-2006, 07:05 PM:
 
I allways schedule tight, so that the credits are used for cleaning.
IF THERE IS NO-ONE WATCHING!
No-one watches the credits, to the point that my house half cue for Narnia is after the Aslan roar, but only 5% of people even see it.
Guys trust me, I've seen this movie, trust me about when to leave.
 

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Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 01-02-2006, 08:38 PM:
 
Oh, come on. Let the Honeywagon Driver have his credit! This guy has to be the first to arrive at a location and the last to leave. Plus, he literally has to clean up the crap that the rest of the crew leaves in his rig.

I once heard a movie critic complaining about a credit for a "Second Second Assistant Director" or an "Additional Second Second Assistant Director" or something like that. The critic seemed to think someone was just making up jobs to list in the credits... like just giving credits to their friends or something like that. But anyone who's spent any real time on a movie set knows how hard the Second Second A.D. works and how much they completely deserve credit, even when the shoot is so big that they need "additional" help.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-02-2006, 09:22 PM:
 
I work for a videogame developer. As in movies, getting a credit in a game is considered a big deal.

The final credit roll after the movie should be considered sacred, whether it's 2 minutes or 10 minutes. There should be a hard-and-fast rule that you NEVER start cleaning the auditorium if customers are still watching the credits, not even if it's just one customer. And cutting the credits off in the middle is completely inexcusable.
 

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Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 01-02-2006, 11:30 PM:
 
When I was a staff assistant manager, the regular manager at my theater and I had to go over to a very busy first-run 15 screen theater and cover for the manager on a Saturday night (we worked at a dollar house which did no business so covering a first run house was quite a shock).
A Perfect Storm was playing and after the 7pm set was over for that movie, a gentleman came out and told me that the credits just stopped before they were over with -though I think he said the music was still playing so I just assumed some booth person put the cue tapes at the wrong spot. I said "I'm sorry Sir, I don't know what went wrong, I'm just covering for the evening" The guy then BLOWS up at me and after pitching a 'small' fit about "It's illegal to not show the credits!! blah blah blah" I said once again "I'm sorry sir, I have no clue what happened but I will give you a pass to come see something different another time". He was happy, and I was happy to get him out of my hair.

I have been in a movie a few times in my life, where I have been watching the credits when the ushers come in a turn on the bright work lights to clean the theater.
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 01-02-2006, 11:49 PM:
 
I agree with the opinion that credits are sacrosanct. (The driver of the roach coach visiting the shoot should have his day in the sun too, shouldn't he? )

Even if, of all things, are in a foreign language. In my film-festival travels I've run too many Asian and Latin-American films to keep track of and not once have I cut the credits short. While I even go so far as to keep the houselights at minimum for the duration of the credits, if I am asked to bring up the lights for Q&As during the credits (grr..) I'll keep the credits rolling on the screen. I don't care if I can't read Japanese credits, they're still credits no matter the language.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-03-2006, 12:07 AM:
 
Frank, you are right about my anger directed more to the manager than the actual incident. I have already made up my mind to purchase the DVD when it is released in April and I can read the credits in the comfort of my home theatre like I have been doing with the majority of major films I chose not to watch in theatres. The way I was treated on New Years Eve at the Kapolei actually reassured me that I was not missing very much when I had cut down watching films in theatres by about ninety percent. There was a time when I used to watch all major films in theatres with the estimated amount totaling about 23 movies in a month. I now average about only two or three. I also used to patronize the concession stand and would spend at least $7.00 at each show. The total amount I had spent for food during the last 6 months came to exactly ZERO dollars. Most of the movies I watch on DVD are rented but I do buy a lot of DVDs I know in advance I would enjoy and do not mind adding to my collection especially after reading favorable reviews posted by many of you here at Film Tech. Although I do not have HDTV yet, I am more than satisfied with my 36 inch Sony and a sound system I am very happy with that has the capability of 6.1 DTS ES as well as 5.1 Dolby Digital EX playback.

The way I was treated by the manager at Pacific's Kapolei made me now want to go to a very nice Regal Theatre four miles from my house everytime I have an urge to see a film in a theatre because they have nice auditoriums with very good picture and sound and a staff that always say thank you when leaving

By the way, If there ever was a film I had wanted to watch all of the credits, it was Peter Jackson's KING KONG after I bought the production diary on a two disc special edition DVD set a day before the film was released. I watched the first disc yesterday and I was amazed at the way the film was shot. This is a wonderful set of discs to get for anyone interested in the production of a very complex motion. picture.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Jeremy Jorgenson (Member # 2989) on 01-03-2006, 12:03 PM:
 
Jarryd, you've never seen a credit for honeywagon driver before "Emily Rose"? It's not a very obscure credit by any means.

==-=-==

My theatre had a schedule once where there was literally no downtime between two shows - it was actually negative downtime, I think the earlier show was scheduled to end 2 minutes after the next one was scheduled to start. (Obviously this was a corporate level decision, not a theatre level one.) If the earlier patrons left before the credits were over, I'd reset the auditorium for the next show (even though the film was still running). BUT if any patrons from the earlier show stayed through the credits, I always let it run completely. If they have been issued a ticket for the film, it's for the entire film.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 01-03-2006, 11:01 PM:
 
Once at the closing credits of the last show of the night, I checked the auditorium from the porthole, and finding it empty, cut power to the lamp so as to begin the 20 minute cooling of the Xenon bulb prior to opening the breakers, which would shut down the lamp cooling fans. (I always cooled the bulb rather than closing with the heat trapped within, to prolong the life of the lamp.)

I didn't know that a woman was standing in the entrance doorway beneath the booth with pad and pencil, taking notes of the credits. She went across the street and down the block to a sister theatre, to find our manager and complain. Naturally he
admonished me, and I apologized and explained the cause of my error, but I realized one can never be too careful.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-04-2006, 02:43 AM:
 
I agree that the credits must be allowed to run but I also think they are getting out of hand. Narnia's end-credits were over 14 minutes! I think all movies should have two columns of credits on the screen. Or (as someone else suggested) put them at the beginning of the movie -- because NO ONE sees them at the end! Or instead of credits, just have one card saying: "Credits for this film can be found at www.credits.com/moviename".
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-04-2006, 10:10 AM:
 
Our prints of King Kong stop by themselves about 99% of the way through the credits sometimes. There's a curl in the film that's causing the optical failsafes to not see the film when it gets near the end. But again, this isn't "in the middle" of the credits, but around the point where the MPAA and digital sound logos are. This is the first movie that's done that in a VERY long time, and strangely, both prints do it on every projector.

As far as our policy goes, we'll clean around patrons watching the credits, but we do it quietly, and we never turn on the bright work lights until everyone is gone or the credits are over, which ever comes first.
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-04-2006, 07:30 PM:
 

quote: Mark J. Marshall

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Our prints of King Kong stop by themselves about 99% of the way through the credits sometimes.

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I bet your sound drops to analogue and warbles when this happens!!!
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 01-04-2006, 10:54 PM:
 

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa

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By the way, If there ever was a film I had wanted to watch all of the credits, it was Peter Jackson's KING KONG

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quote:

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I bet your sound drops to analogue and warbles when this happens!!!

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You wouldn't believe me if I told you...
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-04-2006, 11:15 PM:
 
Martin,

At age 66, my bladder is not what it used to be but it held up rather well during the KING KONG showing. There has been several times when I used to frequent movie theatres more than I do now when I would have an urge to go to 'the little boy's room' regardless of the running time of the film.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-05-2006, 01:54 AM:
 
Off topic, but I read somewhere that your body starts "signaling that you need to visit the "loo" when you're really only at 1/5 of your capacity. So it's just a matter of learing to ignore the urge until you really do need to go!
 

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Posted by Gordon Burke (Member # 3370) on 01-05-2006, 02:49 PM:
 
Isn't there an issue with distributors and studios if the film isn't shown through completely? There are contractual obligations to put people and firms in the credits. Isn't cutting off the credits kind-of a breech of contract between the exhibitor and the distributor? Could complaints about not seeing the credits through be brought to the distributors/studios attentions because it is ultimately part of their branding enterprise?

In my more recent viewing experiences at Century Shoreline (Mountain View, CA) Century 21/22 and CineArts houses, I see the cleanup staff literally waiting at the exit doors for me to leave before they start cleaning the auditorium. They seem to appreciate when the last patrons finally leave, but they don't have an opportunity to give the evil-eye. Maybe I'm lucky here, but I intentionally avoid nearly every other cinema because these Centurys seem to have the courtesy thing going right.
 

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