Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: MIT M4a automation relay problem

This is topic MIT M4a automation relay problem in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-18-2006, 02:52 AM:

I think the relays are the problem, heres why:

Picture two projectors, one works perfectly, the other has issues with the changeover opening, lights dimming, projector starting immediately. I swapped ALL relays in the automations of both projectors, relay for relay, and put them in the exact same spot. I figured, if the relays were the problem, the problems were having with the bad projector would transfer over to the working projector. To my surprise, BOTH projectors work fine with no problems....for now. The reason I say that is, I've tried this before and within a month or so the problem will come back or something different will start to occur (like the lights coming up after the last trailer, or the lights not dimming after the last trialer) really weird stuff. If I'm simply swapping relay for relay, and now we are problem free, whats causing our problems to keep coming back? When they come back, it will simply be a matter of either swapping relays again or most likely just removing and re-inserting them. Before removing them, I check to make sure they were securely seated, and they all were. This simply doesnt make any sense. Anyone come across this? Is there a fix?

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 01-18-2006, 01:08 PM:

Just for fun, I would buy some of Marks favorite contact cleaner, Caig Deoxit. Unplug anything that will unplug, spray the male and female portion of the connectors. Plug them in and out once or twice. Spray them again as per Caigs instructions. Reseat them.

I've cured problems like this before with contact cleaner.

Be sure to turn off the power first.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-18-2006, 02:43 PM:

I thought of that as well. How long does the projector need to sit after spraying the cleaner inside the female portion of the contacts? I dont want to short anything out.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-18-2006, 09:53 PM:

Frank,

You certainly seem to be having problems with that MIT stuff! If you do the Caig cleaner thing do use it very sparingly and apply it to just the relay contacts then seat the relay in its socket. The De-Oxide will do the rest of the work for you. I wouldn't want to say for sure that this will cure your problem though. I suspect that other evil forces are at work there.

Mark

Mark

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-18-2006, 09:58 PM:

Its hard to tell what the deal is. The cleaner sounds like the best possible solution at this point. Like I said earlier, to temporarily fix the problem, removing and replacing the relays resolve and problems, but they do come back. What would cause these contacts to go bad so fast? If this doesnt solve the issues, what else could it be??

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2006, 08:31 AM:

If the relay sockets are soldered directly to the main circuit board I'd be looking for cold/poor solder work!

Mark

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-19-2006, 06:03 PM:

But 4 machines all doing the same thing?? I wouldnt think poor soldering would be the culprit there. 1 projector MAYBE, but all 4 doing the same thing to varying degrees?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-19-2006, 09:45 PM:

Have you contacted the installer or MIT regarding the problem

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2006, 09:56 PM:

Back in the 70's when I was a bench tech at Panasonic I repaired hundreds of the same models of different products for bad solder joints. Solder is an expensive commodity in manufacturing facilities.....

Mark

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-19-2006, 11:25 PM:

We have contacted the installer. They are no help at all.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-20-2006, 07:12 AM:

Well assuming that they got paid for the job then contact the manufacturer directly the warranty (iff still under it) lies with them if it is a manufactureing defect

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-20-2006, 09:01 AM:

I have to confess that when there are MIT problems Bevan seems to be no where to be found........

Mark

Posted by Bevan Wright (Member # 1884) on 01-20-2006, 10:37 AM:

Frank, give me a call 714-751-7998.

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 01-20-2006, 02:25 PM:

quote: Frank Dubrois
the other has issues with the changeover opening, lights dimming, projector starting immediately

Had the same problem after a couple of years of use Replacing the bad relays fixed it

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-20-2006, 04:59 PM:

Wow...found in about 1.5-hours!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-20-2006, 05:19 PM:

quote:
Wow...found in about 1.5-hours!

Yea after my use of the cattle prod..... the orignal post was from the 18th though so it actually took him just about 2 days to find it.....

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-20-2006, 06:51 PM:

Does he work for the company that made that automation? If so, a solution(s) to that problem should be posted here, in the forum.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-20-2006, 11:01 PM:

Frank,

Yes he does..... and I couldn't agree more.... I really dislike companies that sneak around about their technical problems...... shades of DTS!

Mark

Posted by Bevan Wright (Member # 1884) on 01-21-2006, 06:55 AM:

No problem posting the resolution here, just a bit easier to trouble shoot over the phone. Frank, could I get your mailing address, I will swap you a set of relays. Does it happen in every house? When did it start?

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 01-21-2006, 09:33 AM:

It happens in every house with varying problems. All problems are relay related. Can you tell me what the rating of the relays are that belong there? Also, I dont think the relays are bad since we took one set of relays from one projector, swapped them with another projector and BOTH projectors worked frine for about a week.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-21-2006, 12:07 PM:

Thanks Bevan for posting it all here so we all can know how to deal with any problems that may creep up....

Mark

Posted by Bevan Wright (Member # 1884) on 01-21-2006, 05:32 PM:

It does sound like a contact problem, do you notice any oxidation on the relay contacts? I'd like to swap you a set of relays and maybe a power supply to see if we can reproduce the problem here. Please e-mail me your address. bevan.wright@movingimagetech.com.

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 07-01-2006, 12:31 PM:

quote:
RULE #13 If you start a thread on the forums asking for a solution to a problem and you and up getting the answer directly from the manufacturer or other non-internet means, it is expected for you to make a follow-up post explaining the solution. Remember, the forums are open 24 hours a day, every day of the year, and since most problems happen after normal 8-5 weekday hours, the forums are commonly the only place for people to turn to for assistance in the evenings and on weekends. As such, do your fellow members a favor and take the time to post the resolution to your problem.

Is this still a problem or has it been resolved If resolved how about letting us all know what the soulution was.