Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Missing DTS discs & how to deal with this recuring problem!

This is topic Missing DTS discs & how to deal with this recuring problem! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Markus Lemm (Member # 3456) on 01-21-2006, 11:27 AM:

This week we received prints for 'Good Night and Good Luck' and 'A History of Violence' both missing DTS discs. This is a common problem since we are a second run theatre. A quick fax and call to the proper people and two replies the next day. TVA who handles 'Good Night and Good Luck' in Canada says that the DTS discs don't exist. Alliance Atlantis who handles 'A History of Violence' says they can't find any DTS discs. Both excesses sound lame and like boldface lies, considering that we are the only theatre in town playing 'A History of Violence' there must be some discs somewhere.

I have read on other topics that getting DTS discs is a problem in other parts of the world and I've read some interesting solutions as well. Most of the time when we call or fax for discs we receive them in the next day or two. But recently we get the old 'Discs don't exist' line even for films that we know have discs like 'March of the Penguins'.

I propose two solutions.
1. DTS creates a FTP server with access to download either current DTS discs or a request system where a theatre can request a title and upon login to the FTP has access to the requested file. This would also save the cost of sending out physical copies.
2. We in internet community start a 'member based' email ring in which we can privately exchange DTS data files, maybe through gmail, I think it has 1 Gigabyte storage space. The average discs works out to about 800 Megabytes. I realize that DTS has copyrights and 'Unauthorized duplication is prohibited' as it boldly says on the top of DTS discs.

I say if DTS does not come up with a viable solution we should. I'm sure DTS would prefer to have a film shown in DTS, with a nice DTS logo, than in Dolby any day.

Thank you for reading my rant.

Markus Lemm
mlemm@hotmail.com

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-21-2006, 12:24 PM:

The first solution you propose probably won't happen because the film companies don't want it to. They don't want their digital sound "out there" on the internet because they fear pirates would attach it to their otherwise-crappy-sounding bootlegs. (Probably a reasonable fear these days.) Besides, Brad here at Film-Tech has volunteered to set such a site up and they still don't want it.

As for the other solution -- probably a good idea if you could get cooperation from the right people. But still kind of risky from a legal standpoint. Get caught = get sued, probably.

(NOTE: You might want to change the thread title to be a bit more descriptive of what we're discussing here. Just use the edit function.)

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-21-2006, 01:08 PM:

The film distributors should absolutely make available CD images of DTS movies for theater operators to download.

They can have servers with changing passwords and other methods to limit downloads to only authorized managers who call for help. Besides, DTS theatrical CDs are completely useless to people who don't run movie theaters.

If the movie companies actually have a specific stance against making DTS CD images available for managers to download then it would be a stance of outright hypocrisy. These are the same folks who want to beam movies by satellite to theaters with digital video projection equipment installed. What in the hell is the difference between doing something like that and allowing a theater to download a DTS CD image!?

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 01-21-2006, 03:30 PM:

I can't imagine why it would make any difference on Good Night & Good Luck--it is all talk with little music and no sound effects. A working CPxx in analog is all you'd need for it.

Posted by Markus Lemm (Member # 3456) on 01-21-2006, 04:15 PM:

The print of 'Good Night and Good Luck' that we got has about 5 splices per reel. The film came in terrible condition, lots of white out over the entire first 10-12 frames of each reel. The DTS would just smooth out all the inperfections.

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 01-21-2006, 04:36 PM:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the reason DTS discs aren't available to all - say via a FTP site - besides the supposed piracy issue is due to the issue of licensing by country. Wasn't Winged Migration not available in DTS in the U.S. but it was elsewhere (such as Canada)?

Nowadays if I get a print missing discs I send an email to both the distributor and to DTS saying "I need discs - here's everyone's contact info. and our fed-ex #" and DTS & the distributor take care of it and the discs show up by my first show. Kinda sux we have to pay shipping but that's the rule if we want the discs.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 01-21-2006, 06:22 PM:

DTS should get busy and work on this problem. If theaters cannot get the discs, they will not be buying new DTS players. This could put DTS out of business. I like DTS, and I don't want them to go away.

The piracy issue, in this case, is just silly. The pirate would have to have a DTS player to play the discs. Laying the audio back to the video would require edits every few minutes in order to keep the audio and video in sync. Pirates are into turning a quick buck, and don't much care about quality. No pirate is going to go through all the editing necessary to lay the DTS audio back on to the video. Wake up Hollywood.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-21-2006, 08:49 PM:

Bill,

One of the main advantages of digital sound is that it makes dialog much better.

Most of the cinemas I visit have digital sound, on the odd occasion I watch a movie in SR, the first thing I notice is how bad the dialog is.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-21-2006, 09:12 PM:

quote: Bruce Hansen
The piracy issue, in this case, is just silly. The pirate would have to have a DTS player to play the discs. Laying the audio back to the video would require edits every few minutes in order to keep the audio and video in sync. Pirates are into turning a quick buck, and don't much care about quality. No pirate is going to go through all the editing necessary to lay the DTS audio back on to the video. Wake up Hollywood.

Wrong. Stolen DTS discs are commonly used in pirating-either as a means to quickly 'translate' camcordered movies into different languages or to just 'clean up' the sound to get rid of ambient noise (coughing, talking, etc). At the Showest 2005 piracy seminar the audience was shown about 5 clips (hard to remember how many now) of camcordered movies that had been given the DTS treatment. I was quite surprised at the quality. All this is the reason (presumably) that DTS timecode generators are no longer sold and the discs are now encrypted.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 01-21-2006, 09:19 PM:

quote: Michael Brown
Bill,

One of the main advantages of digital sound is that it makes dialog much better.

I completely agree. Dialog intelligibility is probably the most important factor in quality sound in the cinema. If you have a screen with a great A-chain and B-chain and great acoustics, SR-analog might be fine, but in general, digital is always going to have a bit more high end and a crisper sound and is going to be easier to understand.

(Especially for us folk who have been made deaf by over-loud presentations.)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-22-2006, 08:30 AM:

Since the distributors purchase the disk from DTS for the title they encode they choose based on what is there own reasons who can get disks
typically Alliance releasing does not provide disks for any titles even in first run even if it had a DTS release elsewhere

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-22-2006, 12:40 PM:

quote: Bruce Hansen
DTS should get busy and work on this problem.

They'll try to get all of you in trouble for bitching about it before they do that!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-22-2006, 04:19 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
(NOTE: You might want to change the thread title to be a bit more descriptive of what we're discussing here. Just use the edit function.)

This thread will be deleted if the title is not corrected within 48 hours by Markus. The rules are very clear in this regard.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 01-23-2006, 11:48 AM:

DTS film licensing usually has 400 disks to a order. It is up to the studios and distributors to add to this and distribution and tracking. The XD-10 is designed to handle "networked" information and there are future plans in some countries to use this feature to distribute sound tracks....still in the early stages [Wink]

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-23-2006, 08:01 PM:

If one views the DTS disc as a physical part of the print ...this is the solution I think.

How to get that into people's heads is the challenge.

Essentially you want to have it that everyone, from sales and marketing through to the dispatchers and couriers, gets that there is something horribly wrong if a film released in DTS has no DTS discs!

Right now, I think the malaise is that the DTS disc is seen as separate to and not a part of, the print.

Head scratching time...

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 01-23-2006, 08:26 PM:

Heck Brian, they don't even think that way about the print these days. Let alone about DTS discs. Used to be that a "miss Out" (print not delivered in time for showtime) was a HUGE deal. NOw no one seems to care.

Best way to handle this is to beat DTS, the Distrib, and the courier severly about the head and shoulders each and everytime this happens.

Guess I'm lucky, one theatre I know has only had a missing DTS disc once in 3 years. Another no missed discs in about 18 months.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-24-2006, 01:39 AM:

Brad, we're in that situation here. Probably no more than one or two missed-disk instances in the past few years. Of course we're only one screen so odds are better.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-25-2006, 06:08 PM:

Good advice Brad - it obviously works!

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 01-26-2006, 04:46 PM:

I got Good Night and Good Luck as a new print without DTS discs back when it was released. Figured it just didn't support them, so I ran it in DD screen.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-27-2006, 01:11 AM:

Maybe I'm just lucky. We've had very little trouble with missing disks, when bringing in pictures that have played elsewhere... no more than 1 or 2 cases I can remember over the past couple of years.

In one case, our Seattle ETS had spares at their depot, and we picked up a copy that day. In the other, a call to Technicolor got me a copy by overnight delivery.

Posted by Markus Lemm (Member # 3456) on 01-27-2006, 01:41 AM:

We called the technicolor warehouse and the distributor, which is Alliance Atlantis and TVA in Canada and both say the discs don't exist.
Most of the time when we are missing discs there is no problem getting a copy sent by the next day or two. I just found it odd that two films, 'History of Violence' and 'Good Night and Good Luck' both don't have DTS discs available.
It seems that in Canada if the film is distributed by Alliance Atlantis then it has to be a big budget film for them to get the discs. TVA is always a resounding NO DTS discs.

If anyone has a copy of the discs that they would be willing to send to me over the internet please email me and we can work out something.

Thanks,

Markus
mlemm@hotmail.com

P.s. Also looking for 'Paradise Now' discs