Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: how much for a pro-35 etc

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Posted by Josh Mitoska (Member # 1086) on 01-30-2006, 04:02 PM:

Just a quick question, I have someone who wants to sell me a used pro-35 with lamp house adn power supply, I don't really have any idea what used equipment is worth, what do you think a fair price is for that stuff-thanks- Also please I don't need anybody offering to sell me any thing, this pro 35 is locat so I will just be picking it up, thanks

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 01-30-2006, 04:22 PM:

Be sure to figure in the cost of replacing the framing coupler assembly, outboard bearing, and all oil seals into the price you pay. [Wink]

What type of lamphouse?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-30-2006, 04:44 PM:

I agree with Danny. Buying a used projector is like buying a used car. It would be foolish for the buyer to blindly trust the seller/dealer without knowing the true condition of the vehicle.

Seller's reputation aside, if a buyer cannot personally evaluate the condition by themselves, a wise buyer will seek the help of an unbiased professional. In the case of a vehicle, it would be an independent auto mechanic; for the projector, that would be a qualified film technician/engineer.

Blindly asking what something is "worth" without any details is a waste of everyone's time. It could range from $100 for junk to well over $1000 for a pristine rebuilt system.

In any event, just like purchasing a car, I would make sure to get some sort of written agreement from the seller as to the condition and remedies in case things are not as they appear.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 01-30-2006, 04:50 PM:

You might want to check out a Pro 35 now on ebay just for comparison (obviously subject to the above discussion on condition). This one would like you to believe that it's an excellent low hour unit with no pedestal or lamphouse and is currently at $900, FWIW.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2006, 07:47 PM:

Parts are expensive... If the movement needs a star(not uncommon) then its really big bucks. Its essentially an out of production machine and some parts are getting hard to get(from Strong at least). I say not more than 50 bucks total as-is... In fact they should pay you 50 bucks to haul it away!

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-30-2006, 10:37 PM:

PROS are commonly known as "Boat Anchors", yet if taken care of and operated the right way, the CAN do the job needed.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-31-2006, 03:48 PM:

Unless you either have the knowledge needed to service this machine, or a good serviceman available (at rates you're comfortable with), I'd stay away from this projector.

As Monte says, you can coax "decent" performance out of a VIP... so long as you aren't obsessively picky about vertical jitter. However, everything else that's been said about the projector on this thread is also true. The parts you'll need to keep the machine running at its "best" aren't cheap, and you will need to stay on top of it. The cost of a couple of replacement sprockets or a rebuilt coupler could put you past what you can buy a whole machine for.

On the other hand, there are plenty of makes out there that, with little else than regular cleaning and attention to proper lubrication, will probably run far longer than you will. I have my favorite brands, as do others here. Most of 'em are pretty good.

One thing that CAN be said about a VIP however, is that... around here anyway... it usually shows up around the bottom of the "favorite machines" lists.

However, if you're hell-bent on making an offer... Regal sold a bunch of heads to a nearby indie for $115 each... and Ebay once had a whole machine, including a Super Lume-X and power supply that went for $500.

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 01-31-2006, 04:05 PM:

quote: Jack Ondracek

As Monte says, you can coax "decent" performance out of a VIP... so long as you aren't obsessively picky about vertical jitter.

Have to disagree with you on that one. After I did a complete rebuild on mine (the one in the for sale forum now), it gave a very steady picture; and it's the quietest 35mm machine i've ever worked with. Built like a damn tank!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-31-2006, 07:15 PM:

I agree with Dan that they can put out a really steady picture both vertically..... and laterally if you have the "Disney Gate" when they are in top shape but in day to day theatre operations they are far from the machine of choice... even the slightest machine side film pile up and the star is usually a gonner. Neither the star nor the cam are hardened like Simplex or Century parts are.... so the slightest stress while in operation will either take out the star or the coupler or both. The result is a picture with that nasty cyclical bounce to it. The outer bearings also don't seem to last as long as they used to.....even with a barden bearing in there.

For use at home its ok but I could think of alot of other machines I would rather set up at home.... like a Powers 6B for instance.....(just kidding!) I think Dan found that there are better "home machines" too..... Most people that I know that have a real interest in film and equipment never stop at owning just one machine....
Mark

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-31-2006, 07:29 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Most people that I know that have a real interest in film and equipment never stop at owning just one machine....

Of course, most have two or three so they can do changeovers. [Big Grin]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-01-2006, 10:07 AM:

Dan and Mark may both be right, in their own ways, but they also prove my own point.

Dan put, what?... a year or so into his rebuild? If he did it right, maybe he has a machine that might even be better than it was when it originally rolled off the factory floor. If someone's looking to replace a head they already have, it might be the way to go. No disrespect to Dan and his effort, but he had a lot of help along the way (and probably learned a bunch, too).

I spent a couple of years, running a theatre with 4 of them, and they were nothing but financial black holes. From an owner's point of view, I put way more time and money into them than I should have. As a projectionist, I worked in several of Tom Moyer's Ballantyne booths that were in their first year of existance. In one case, I had 4 new PRO-35s in the same building with two 30-year-old XLs. ALL of the Ballantynes had rediculous jitter in them from the day we first turned them on (the XL's were rock-steady). There are 4 PRO-35s still running in our area, and even though that chain has a pretty decent tech here, they don't hold a candle to a building full of Cinemechs right next door. Dan's right about the noise though. A Ballantyne does run pretty quiet.

Mark's points about his "ideal" Pro-35 illustrate things from a servicemaster's point of view... but aren't likely to turn up down at my level. Considering what you'll get at the other end, "Disney" parts are stupidly expensive... I bought one of their framing couplers, and quickly learned I had plenty of other problems elsewhere in the mechanism.

Considering their age, I'd bet you could pick up some pretty decent Century or Simplex heads (sorry, Mark) with what you'd spend on the parts to fix a Ballantyne... so the question is, "why would you?". Besides... in most installs, having a PRO-35 marries you to a single soundhead that has its own set of problems... not the least of which includes bearings that eventally seize and take out the sprocket shaft.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-01-2006, 12:26 PM:

I too remember installing a booth in Carson City Nevada back when Tom Moyer had just purchased the circuit from Bob Retzer..anyway it was a Twin and I had started installing old XLs with MINI PEC automation and 6000 ft reels on one side ( Retzers favorite gear! )and Pat Moore and one of Moyer's techs was installing the new 'Pro-35s' (6000ft auto changeover) on the other side..needless to say, my install took a couple days, theirs was done in a day (Because at that time Balco would send a pre made wiring gutter to the theatre and the electrician would install it, then the the equipment would basically 'plug in and play' Well opening nite, I sat next to the XLs humming away eating some popcorn while the other guys fought a main drive gear problem and had to run on one machine for two days!!! They also had the feeble self rewinding system installed, and it didn't work well so they were rewinding on the new TT Ultra I had sold Retzer! )I got the last laugh there! I have never built up much respect for the Pro-35 since! (This was over 30 years ago!) At least Pat and I became good friends after that!! If I remember during that time Balco had a 5 YEAR UNLIMITED WARRANTEE!! Boy, that must have set them back financially for a while!!

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-01-2006, 12:31 PM:

Jack: I couldn't agree more. Every penny spent on a Ballantyne is a penny that could have helped buy a new/rebuilt Simplex or Century. At best you sink money into a distraction.

I will say this; Ballantynes will run bad film that won't run on anything else; but the straight gate is a focus issue and the bulk of metal behind the shutter blade makes them unsuitable for anywhere (drive in) that needs a lot of light.

It's not like there is a scarcity of Century/Simplex. I have more than 250 myself. Louis

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-01-2006, 02:08 PM:

Actually the Pro35 s I service cause far less trouble and fewer parts than the century that we deal with

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-01-2006, 02:16 PM:

We have a bunch of 2 perf Pro 35's if anyone needs one.....

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-01-2006, 04:48 PM:

so they are half the price of a 4 perf one with half the problems? [Smile]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-01-2006, 05:34 PM:

The two Centurys that I've got running in a drive-in have been the most reliably of all other machines we've got. I'd install more of them any day.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-01-2006, 06:54 PM:

quote: Daryl C. W. O'Shea
The two Centurys that I've got running in a drive-in have been the most reliably of all other machines we've got. I'd install more of them any day.

Daryl,

Thats exactly what I used to do. I'd get an entire truckload of Century C's from Stata and rebuild them like new with Kelmar turrets. I did this 6 or 7 times... comming back through customs was a riot as none of the customs people wanted to touch all the greasy old machinery... apparently they must have to supply their own uniforms. That looked at one made in New York Century label ans sent me on my merry way. All of them are still running and the customers running them report that they are still the best running machines in their chains.

Gord,

We got them as take aways so If you have a justifiable use for them they might even be free...... They are not economically converted to 4 perf. All the internal gearing and vert. shaft are different. The 8 sided star makes a nice paperweight though.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-02-2006, 02:23 AM:

You know, those two Cs I'm talking about may have come from crazy Keith. I can't remember anymore, we've had them for a looooong time.