Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How bad is the DP 75?

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Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 02-12-2006, 06:06 AM:

At least in Sweden, the Philips DP 75 (not the Kinoton DP75 E) has
a very bad reputation. It´s said to be noisy, and generally a
no-good machine.

Is it really that bad? I know it´s not DP 70 class, but how does it
actually perform? If compared to the FP30 D, what´s the 35mm image
like, regarding focus and steadiness? How does it handle 70mm? Any
comments?

I have no experience in this machine, just curious.

Thomas

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-12-2006, 06:54 AM:

It is awkward to thread and the gate is a very convoluted curve to it but it does put out a very good picture
the sprocket pads are often an issue
Not a bad machine but just not one of my favorites

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-12-2006, 03:43 PM:

I think Gordon summed it up pretty well. I have a pair under our service and they are doing just fine but they don't receive anything like a "grind" service.

I would NOT characterize them as noisy either...they run film at similar loudness as the other Kinoton machines.

BTW....there is not difference between the Philips DP75 and Kinoton DP75...same machine. The new machine, the FP 75E is a cross between an FP30E and an SP75E.

A well tuned DP75 should put out a pretty darn good show. Note, Dolby's "listening room" is equipped with a pair of DP75s.

My biggest gripe with the DP75 is the speed. The start up too rapidly and they do not run at 24fps...they run fast. On the pair I service, I plan to go to a 3-phase motor with suitable controller to correct both issues.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-12-2006, 05:46 PM:

I wonder what Dolby has done to correct that in their listening room. After all that would affect the pitch of their SRD tracks!

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-12-2006, 08:00 PM:

The Dolby DP75 projectors run on speed or did when I installed them. The used sync motors and toothed belts and ran both 24 and 30 FPS, just in case.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-12-2006, 09:24 PM:

My apologies...I was indeed referring to their more popular (for reasons that escape me) async motors. With a sync motor, they should run at speed, of course.

Sam, any problems with the DP75s at Dolby?

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-13-2006, 05:46 AM:

They provide a great picture on 35mm and 70mm, but VERY noisey on 70mm and moderate on 35mm. In fact they would be the loudest projector on 70mm that I know; Bauer U3, Cinemeccanica 8 and 10, DP 70/EL 4000/AA2 are all much less loud on 70mm.

They are indeed difficult to thread on 35mm due to the gate, and by this I don't just mean hard to get used to like many new projectors for the first time; they are tricky to thread with 35mm full stop.

On the other hand, 70mm just falls into them. I have operated them in several booths and the clatter on 70mm can drive you mad. Gates and skates seem to wear even more quickly than on other Kinoton/Phillips projectors and the auto lens change is something to watch; out - turn - back.

Still a few in use here in Australia as they have proved very reliable over the years. A solid projector in my opinion and certainly no dog.

David

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-13-2006, 07:28 AM:

The only major downside is they don't like film-guarded prints

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-13-2006, 11:00 AM:

The most questionable area is the int. sprocket pad roller or spoon. It had a hard time keeping the film in contact and just plain made me nervous. A steel reinforced spoon came out later and it is much better but still kind of tacky. A lot of theatres used rubber bands to hold the spoon in place.

The other serious problem they have is that under certain conditions the vertical column will flex and cause the lens carriage assembly to move in relation to the film and the effect on the screen is not soon forgotten. Looks a bit like flicker or travel ghost. Various fixes have been done in the field but this flaw caused them to be pulled out of Mann houses in LA.

The main advantage of this projector was the very fast conversion from 35 to 70mm operation as the gate and trap are one piece and the pad rollers change out very quickly. This was an important feature in its day.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-13-2006, 04:39 PM:

They definately have the slickest and fastest spindle change of any projector past and present from 1/2" (12.7mm) to 5/16"....they take all of .5-seconds to change and are very secure.

As for threading...I have to disagree on the ease...I have found them to thread plenty fast..even in the gate area.

The enormous lower loop will fool some...this is probably why the lower "spoon" is not too critical...the machine will practically operate without any "spoons".

Perhaps the 70mm noise is noted by the fact it does not have a door on it in later incarnations. The AA2 has a door. The quietest 70mm machine is probably the Century JJ...with or without a door...it has the smallest loops too.

What can I say...I don't dislike the machine though it is definately a strange beast. I'd rather run an FP75E though. Which is also strange in that it is noisier turning the 70mm film by hand than when it is running at speed...go figure.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 02-13-2006, 04:51 PM:

There are Still a working Pair of the Philips DP75's working and had doors fitted, this was at the ABC Shaftsbury Avenue in London, now named Odeon Covent Garden.

I have worked on several DP75 and found they gave a steady picture.

Just keep handy a supply of "Rubber Bands" for that Pad Shoe!.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 02-14-2006, 04:49 AM:

I must say that whenever I saw 70mm at the old ABC, Shaftsbury Avenue, I thought the picture there was excellent. It was a twin cinema then with two projectors in each box on changeovers! Don’t remember the doors on the projectors though, were they put on later models?

When Classic / Cannon took over the Prince Charles Cinema, off Leicester Square from the Star circuit, a pair of Philips DP 75s with a platter were installed replacing the Westrex 5000 35/70mm projectors. Many thought that this was a crying shame as they were running well especially 70mm. Perhaps it was a question of servicing and spare parts available.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-14-2006, 12:37 PM:

Bernard, they are still in service at the Prince Charles. We put SR.D on them not so long ago.

Quite a few of them around these parts, always in change over pairs for some reason, I recall most of the ABC's I worked in being equipped with them or FP20.

I've no real axe to grind with the DP75, the only real bug bear is the fiddly plastic pad shoe devices. They need little maintenance to keep them whirring away.

Posted by Matthew Taylor (Member # 2310) on 02-14-2006, 04:33 PM:

This is off topic a bit, but I was told my Prevost P70 came from the Prince Charles. Just thought I'd share that [Smile]

Posted by Stan Gunn (Member # 554) on 02-16-2006, 03:11 AM:

Currently I am looking after 4 phillips DP75s at one site,I find them to be a good solid machine.
Apart from the fiddly threading around the intermittent,
they have a very stable and sharp image due I think to the strange gate setup which is also very silent [when it is in good order],but can be very noisey if worn.

My main gripe is the over complex electrics, which was changed in the KINOTON version, I would have no hassle in seting up my own cinema useing them.

Stan

Posted by Darren Payne (Member # 3391) on 12-23-2006, 02:10 PM:

Hi guys,

Couldn't resist this topic.. I'm currently running 3 DP75s, one of which still retains a fully functional 70mm facility (and will remain as such!) with SRD via the Dolby cat700 penthouse reader.

Gives a superb steady picture (as long as the racking bush isn't worn) and the pad shoes are fine as I double up the springs to hold them in place.(Handy tip especially for the Intermittent shoe..)

The other 2 are 35mm only and were common place for many ABCs in the early 1970's as a deal was struck between Philips and ABC to sell unwanted mechanisms.

Would keep my 75s in favour of the Victoria 5 any day..

[thumbsup]

Posted by John Caswell (Member # 4024) on 12-23-2006, 04:57 PM:

Hi, we run a DP75 in our largest screen, have to agree it's got a great steady picture, and is ideal for swapping between 35mm and 70mm really quickly.

To be honest I don't have any problems with lacing 35mm on it, find it really quick and easy. Suppose it's down to what you're used to using. I agree with the points mentioned regarding the pads, they don't cause any problems for us when playing 35mm, but for 70mm we always bring out the rubber bands! [Smile]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-23-2006, 05:13 PM:

quote: Bernard Tonks
I must say that whenever I saw 70mm at the old ABC, Shaftsbury Avenue, I thought the picture there was excellent. It was a twin cinema then with two projectors in each box on changeovers! Don’t remember the doors on the projectors though, were they put on later models?

I agree Bernard, I saw quite a bit of 70mm there, the re-release of '2001', 'Gettysburg' and the restored 'My Fair Lady' come to mind. By the time I saw 'My Fair Lady', not too long before it bacame an Odeon, and was converted to four screens I believe, it was looking rather tired, and slightly shabby, nothing that re-upholstered seats and a bit of paint here and there wouldn't have fixed. I haven't been there since it was converted. 'Gettysburg' was rather odd; tickets were sold separately for each half, and you could see them on different days if you wanted to. Part one was in screen one, and part two in screen two. One of the best 70mm houses in London, I think.

quote: Pete Naples
Quite a few of them around these parts, always in change over pairs for some reason, I recall most of the ABC's I worked in being equipped with them or FP20.

Quite a few ABC cincmas seem to have had them that were never equipped for 70mm, in much the same way that some Odeons that were never 70mm equipped for 70mm had Vic 8s.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-23-2006, 05:36 PM:

quote: Bernard Tonks
I must say that whenever I saw 70mm at the old ABC, Shaftsbury Avenue, I thought the picture there was excellent. It was a twin cinema then with two projectors in each box on changeovers! Don’t remember the doors on the projectors though, were they put on later models?

I agree Bernard, I saw quite a bit of 70mm there, the re-release of '2001', 'Gettysburg' and the restored 'My Fair Lady' come to mind. By the time I saw 'My Fair Lady', not too long before it bacame an Odeon, and was converted to four screens I believe, it was looking rather tired, and slightly shabby, nothing that re-upholstered seats and a bit of paint here ad there wouldn't have fixed. I haven't been there since it was converted. 'Gettysburg' as rather odd; tickets were sold separately for each half, and you could see them on different days if you wanted to. Part one was in screen one, and part two in screen two. One of the best 70mm houses in London, I think.

quote: Pete Naples
Quite a few of them around these parts, always in change over pairs for some reason, I recall most of the ABC's I worked in being equipped with them or FP20.

Quite a few ABC cincmas seem to have had them that were never equipped for 70mm, in much the same way that some Odeons that were never 70mm equipped for 70mm had Vic 8s.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 12-30-2006, 04:49 PM:

Personally I like them, you get use to the thread pretty quick, rock steady picture, sure running 70mm is loud, 35mm is much quieter. overall one of my favorites. [thumbsup]

I do know one cinema that did not change its oil in its dp75 for ten years (without any problems and no I don't condone this !!!!). So no need to doubt the reliability or the quality of the build of a philips or kinoton that is the basis of this legend.

PS Ive threaded the Philips at The Prince Charles, and saw a 70mm print there, I thought it was first class. tickets were really cheap. [Big Grin]

[ 01-01-2007, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: Cameron Glendinning ]

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 02-18-2008, 02:31 PM:

It has been 414 days since the last post.