quote: Louis Bornwasser

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Grand total: 2230 runs, no scratches

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Louis-Was that reels or platter?
Kallet's Shoppngtown theatre in Syracuse ran one 70mm print of "Sound of Music" for 76 weeks. That's about 900 runs. The print looked new when it left.
Bob
 

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Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 02-14-2006, 01:01 PM:
 
One of the projectionists at Colonial Williamsburg once told me they would replace a print after 2000 runs. He said that more often than not the old print was still in excellent shape.
 

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Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 02-14-2006, 01:35 PM:
 
Ran 49 Weeks of E.T. 5 shows Daily With the first 3 weeks we interlocked between 2 auditoriums,ran early shows and Midnight shows Fri.,Sat. Same Print Through the entire Run off a Platter. That Print at the end of its run was in much better shape that a lot of prints I get 2-3 weeks off the break today.
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 02-14-2006, 08:29 PM:
 
Years ago in changeover days My Fair Lady ran reel to reel at the long since departed Royal Cinema in Perth West Australia for over a year doing something like 3 or 4 sessions a day.
The projectionist staff at the time prided themselves that they never had breakdown and had no film damage after all that time.
Apparently the only evidence was a bit of "rain" as the cues were about to appear.
I will check with one of those guys and post the exact figure of number of runs that film did and that was acetate film not poly well done guys.
Lindsay
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-14-2006, 08:59 PM:
 
I have heard those figures as well -- between 2000 and 2500, but again, that's with expert handling and under optimum conditions such no extremes, i.e., screen sizes that require the largest of light sources.

If they could get those high numbers in the days of triacetate base, E-Z Fade Eastman dyes and no FilmGuard, it would be safe to say that today, given VKF sprocket design, advances in chemical treatments (ala FilmGuard) and Low Fade emulsions, we should be able to get lots more runs past what they could in previous decades, before a print would need to be retired.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-14-2006, 09:22 PM:
 
Indeed Frank, I've yet to find a quantity of runs that shows any wear when properly handled and ran on well maintained projection equipment with an inline cleaner running FG...at least for 35mm and 5/70 prints.
 

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Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-14-2006, 11:47 PM:
 
We ran Raiders 4 sessions per day every day for a year on the same print. It was a 70mm print run on doubled up spools ( 1 + 2, 3 + 4, 5 + 6). It looked and sounded good when we finished with it and I believe this print still exists here. The film ran for another 6 months in the same building in 35mm.

70mm prints will generally last longer as the raised mag tracks protect the picture area.

With 35mm on spools or platter operation, about 6 months running at 5 session per day has been average in my experience -without film cleaners. This equates to about 900 runs.

Most long runs before 1990 were of course 70mm prints, so it is difficult to find long running 35mm prints. A few I can recall were Airplane 18 months - 2 prints, Life Of Brian 12 months plus - 2 prints, Ruthless People 8 months, Crocodile Dundee 12 months plus - 2 prints, Pretty Woman 6 months - 2 prints.

Generally we'd request a new print at the 6 month point due to crackle on the optical track (Dolby A) or in recent times digital track drop outs (Dolby Digital).

It is almost academic now as the last long runs (5 months plus)I recall were Titanic and Matrix here. With film cleaners, wet or PTR, and correctly maintained equipment there is no reason why very long runs on a single print can not be achieved.

David
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 02-15-2006, 03:13 AM:
 
Not sure if it's the same 70mm print of "Raiders" that David screened but it's now badly faded. Hasn't been screened for a few years now. It used to get a run here and there at the Astor Theatre along with "Temple of Doom". The 70mm print of "Pink Floyd: The Wall" is in still good enough shape but it too has faded. Not sure where and how many runs it had originally.
 

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Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-15-2006, 04:54 AM:
 
Hi John,

We ran each of those shows at Greater Union if they are the original Melbourne prints. As stated Raiders ran for a year, 4 sessions per day. There are about 5 missing frames at the Harrison Ford v's German beside aircraft fight scene. This was a rewind error.

The T.O.D. print had a few frames missing when the Prince comes down the steps for the first time at the Panquot Palace, it is just after a reel change. This was projectionist error, film slipped and jerked on feed and then bang! The poor relief projectionist almost fell in a heap when he relised that after over 1000 runs he was responsible for a join being made! These splices will tell you if they are the original prints we ran. TOD ran 6 months in 70mm.

We also ran The Wall in 70mm, its season was less than 6 weeks in 70mm. It did however move to the old Valhalla in Richmond where it ran almost weekly for years.

All of these prints would have been circuited around the state playing drive-ins and hardtops after we finished with them of course. Raiders was made just before the latest low fade stocks were introduced. I have seen it since and whilst it is clean, the colour is shot as you say.

David
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-15-2006, 09:10 AM:
 
Our run was 35mm platter....Christie AW-2 (referring to previous posting.)Louis
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 02-15-2006, 11:31 AM:
 
We had an SR version of Big Fat Greek Wedding that ran for over 10 months without soundtrack or image wear of any kind. FG'd weekly & even survived some nasty threading by newbies and assistant managers. My boss had me break it down at the 6 month mark & reapply splice tape, but it actually didn't seem necessary.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-15-2006, 03:12 PM:
 
So much for the Cinema TV claim of "no more damaged film." My experience with film damage is that it only happens in certain places and for very good reasons. I do attend many films locally (Louisville) and have never seen any noticeable film damage. I wonder if my experience is normal or if I live in a "special place." Louis
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 02-15-2006, 06:22 PM:
 
I agree. When I helped run a print of "Citizen Kane" back in 2003 it was perfect. Can't say what year it was made but it was old and had many screenings and make-up/breakdowns. That's one example of film being handled correctly. Most of multi's here nowadays don't put a mark on the films at all even after 2-3 months of screenings, you might see a little dust at the tails but that's it.

In regards to 70mm prints that are also in fine shape here are "Star Trek 2 & 3" (although #2 had sound issues at the head of the 1st reel), and Aliens. "The Wall" does have some heavy base side scratching at the start of the "Dirty Woman" track where the Limo rocks up back stage with the girls looking for passes in tow. I'm guessing here but i'd it's the head of reel 3 or 4.
David did they crank it up at Greater Union?? The structure's start to crack at the Astor when it screens
 

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Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-16-2006, 05:02 AM:
 
It sure was quality sound in Russell Cinema 6. Remember this was the first screen in the country with a Dolby CP200 processor and it had 30 inch subs; it was the best around back in those days. It was probably over taken by Village Centre Cinema 1 around the corner in 1986, but that is now a memory....it closed last night.

The 30 inch subs were installed for ET, yet ET became so big it ran down the block at the Forum and Rapallo.

David
 

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Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 02-17-2006, 08:53 AM:
 
Hi David.

Well if it's still the same system in Russel St #6 it's still holds up well. Too bad about the brick walls though. I have not been there for maybe 2-3 years but apart from "Whale Rider" the prints were always clean and free of scratches. Sad about the Village Bourke St, I heard about the closure some time back. That's 2 good locations gone from the CBD, the other been the Lumiere Lonsdale St (for their programming). I couldn't care for Hotys closing on Bourke St and neither for their new location at Melbourne Central. In regards to the former "Rappalo" it now boasts a great Klipsch sound system. It's the best venue for the Melbourne International Film Festival.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-17-2006, 02:24 PM:
 
I have a sample of a 70mm Kodak ESTAR base print that was retired from running at a theme park after over 60,000 runs!

And a 35mm Kodak ESTAR base print that clocked over 35,000 runs!

Talk about "Film Done Right".
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-17-2006, 03:54 PM:
 
Many thanks for all those very useful figures!

It's great to have good information to counter the claims (like the one I saw last week) that prints deteriorate "after 30 runs".

What would they make of 35,000 runs?
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-17-2006, 09:27 PM:
 

quote: Louis Bornwasser

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My experience with film damage is that it only happens in certain places and for very good reasons.

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My experience is that it happens when a manager tries to run the booth. Particularly one who claims to be an expert projectionist.
 

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Posted by Raymond Watson (Member # 3644) on 02-17-2006, 09:57 PM:
 
I recently purchased the booth equipment from the Richard Nixon Presidential Library in Yorba Linda ,CA.

They only ran one film, a documentary on President Nixon,I think it was about 45 min. run time.

Anyway,the equip. was installed new in 1990,and there was some paperwork showing when they changed out their prints. The first 8 years they used 11 prints, 8 runs a day 363 days a year.

Mind you, they used the janitor to "fix" the projector "thingy" when it "broke". They called out the equipment dealer when the janitor couldn't "fix" it.
They also ran this system with an ELF loop system by Christie,which supposidly scratches prints,and a Century MSA(which aren't supposed to be the easiest on film)

Given these less than ideal conditions, they still averaged 2112 runs per print (give or take a couple weeks when the janitor cleaned the xenon bulb,reflector,mirrors,and ign. xformer with floor wax). Just kidding......but it would not surprise me!

I only viewed their showing after they had gone to digital
format,so I cannot attest to their quality standards when using the 35mm format,nor did I inspect any old prints.
The rest of the Nixon Library was first class and I bet that their 35mm presentation was very good.

They did average well over 2000 runs on 11 consecutive prints.

That pretty much blows away the "30 runs or so" theory.

Ray Watson
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 02-20-2006, 03:46 AM:
 
Checked today re runs that My Fair Lady did at old theatre Royal in Perth.
It was in days of changeovers but was not in 35mm but 70mm full mag sound running on Vic 8's.
It ran for over 12 months doing 2 sessions a day weekdays and 3 on the Saturday plus during the school holiday period they had extra matinees plugged in so in all it did approaching 1000 passes.
When you think about that it was one hell of a lot of work as those 6000' 70mm reels were not exactly light.
One change was a challenge as it was slap in the middle of the waltzing scene so the pressure was really on to get EXACT changes at that spot.
There was very little rain damage at each reel end and they had NO splices made in all that time.
For 70mm stuff quite an impressive achievement I think.
I have only ever run one 70mm feature and that was at a drivein in the northwest of WA (Port Hedland) on Vic 8's and my arms were aching after one showing getting those big reels onto the spindles so I can appreciate what those guys did at the Royal
Lindsay
 

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