Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Should I be recycling my bulbs?

This is topic Should I be recycling my bulbs? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-11-2006, 09:51 PM:

I've been on the same 1600 watt Xenon since mid-September 2005. Tonight I noticed just the slightest, slightest pulsation in brightness. It only lasted for a minute or two (in fact, it was during an old trailer), but it made me think... should I be rotating my bulbs, or should I just run the current one until it goes dark? What do you guys think?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-11-2006, 10:36 PM:

How many hours are on the bulb? How is your lamphouse ventilation? How many hours do you usually get out of a bulb?

Does your automation strike and kill the bulb with every show?

The date on which you changed the bulb doesn't mean whole lot. It's much more important how much use it has gotten.

--jhawk

Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-11-2006, 11:31 PM:

First off, the title of this post should've been "Should I be rotating my bulbs?" not "recycling."

Secondly, to answer jhawk's questions:

Hours on the bulb = ~600
Ventilation = very good (500 cfm), always on

This is our first bulb (we opened in September), so I don't know how long we usually get... yet. My automation typically switches the bulb off if there's less than 30 minutes between shows, otherwise it stays on.

Posted by Kenneth Tiffany (Member # 3643) on 03-12-2006, 12:15 AM:

600 is way low hours for a 1600W. We get 2000-4000 hours on our 2kW(Osram XBO 2000W H OFR). Our tech rotates our lamps if we get a dark spot on a side, to even it out, but apparantly Osram says you don't need to(and we get decent hours even without rotating).

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-12-2006, 12:24 AM:

quote: Dan Chilton
My automation typically switches the bulb off if there's less than 30 minutes between shows, otherwise it stays on.

I'm guessing you mean "more than 30 minutes between shows." (I hope so, anyway...seems like an awful waste of electricity and bulb-life to run it MORE than 30 minutes between shows.)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-12-2006, 12:29 AM:

Excuse me? What kind of automation knows if the intermission is going to be more than 30 minutes???

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 03-12-2006, 12:35 AM:

We were told that striking a 2K bulb used as much power as 20 minutes of normal running and that it was equivalent in bulb life to one hour of normal running. If this is a myth I am sure it will be busted before I have finished this sentence. The techs told us that the twin bulbs in our video projector should be left on for 40 minutes after being turned on. There seems to be quite a number of posts talking about 1600 and 2000 xenons. This indicates that there are still quite a few screens out there less than 80 foot wide.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-12-2006, 01:46 AM:

Forget 80 foot wide screens. You can't even adequately light a screen HALF that wide with a 2K bulb. (Unless your standards are really low, I suppose.)

There is some argument about the whole "strike the lamp and lose an hour". Obviously it does kill the life a little bit, but personally I don't quite buy an entire HOUR of life.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-12-2006, 03:02 AM:

quote: Dan Chilton
My automation typically switches the bulb off if there's less than 30 minutes between shows, otherwise it stays on.

ha, must be quite an automation!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-12-2006, 07:43 AM:

I worked at two sites which ran 1.6k lamps (Osrams). The company policy was to rotate a quarter-turn every 500 hours, and we'd usually get 2,000-2,500 hours out of each one - heading towards 3,000 for a good one. There was no set policy on downtime between shows. I would tend to turn the lamp off if this was more than around 30 minutes. I'd always keep both lamps running throughout a changeover show.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-12-2006, 09:10 AM:

Long ago I serviced a 2 machine drive in with 20 minute reels and Christie CXL-30. I recall good life 2000+ hours anyway. Bulb was ignited for each reel. Louis

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-12-2006, 01:16 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Long ago I serviced a 2 machine drive in with 20 minute reels and Christie CXL-30. I recall good life 2000+ hours anyway.

Sure.
I used to get 3,500+ hours out of 4kW Perkin-Elmers... but that ended a long time ago.

I was told it had something to do with the anode and thoriated tungsten (?) that they commonly used back then something like that... I don't remember exactly now.

The bulbs they turn out these days sure don't perform like they used to... at least the higher wattage ones.

Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-12-2006, 01:50 PM:

My automation is amazing.... it consists of myself and a timer. We run a single reel-to-reel projector, so I'm the one responsible for manually striking the bulb / shutting the dowser / drawing down the house lights / fading the music / etc.. It's the only automation I trust 100%... well, 98%.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 03-12-2006, 01:53 PM:

Also in bulb duration very important things are bulb DC Voltage (V) and Current (A) because if these values are over than in manual bulb life is shorter than average, I saw some 1,6KW running 85-90A, that definitely gonna short life, electrodes will be burned!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2006, 02:05 PM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
The bulbs they turn out these days sure don't perform like they used to... at least the higher wattage ones.

Now thats a line of crap! There is at least one very consistant and super reliable lamp left and thats Christie/Ushio. I would rate Superior Quartz a close second. Everyone else is inconsistant as hell and far behind including the beloved OSRAM.

The Redwood Drive Inn here in West Valley typially runs their Christie 4kw lamps well past 3500 hours, some close to 4,000 hrs. The Redwood does not shut off their lamps for the entire time they are open, typically dusk to dawn. Other customers that let em burn between shows also experience longer lamp life.

We also have customers (much to my distress) that get 10,000 plus hours out of 2kw Christie lamps, some have exceeded 14,000 hours and they are still nice and clear when pulled... just unstable. I had one location in ELKO, NV that I mentioned a couple of years back on this forum that ran their original 2kw Christie lamp for close to 8 years. I've had 3 kw lamps go past 5,000 hrs on many occasions. None of these lamps has ever exploded and to answer your "should I rotate question" none of these lamps ever received any rotation durung their ultra long life span.

A tip... If you can suck the Sunday Paper up the stack then you have enough cooling [thumbsup]

!

BTW: The Redwood just installed Teqnalight reflectors so there goes their great lamp life [thumbsdown]

!

Most lamphouse manufacturers specs for exhaust blowers are but more than a joke and they fail to make mention of high altitude cooling. Bulb life is all in the Exhaust blower..... rectifier a close second. Hurricane type blowers do pay off and those at lower, near sea level elevations should have no difficulties cooling lamps. Higher altitudes such as I deal with are a bit more difficult to cool and require even larger than normal blowers. Just going from 5,000 feet to 7,0000 feet the air becomes alot thinner and things start to get a bit hairy spec'ing the correct blower. Even the time of year can dictate how the air behaves at these altitudes I have also found that is is virtually impossible to over cool a lsmp. Anyone that thinks you can is full of it... just try to over cool those operating white hot tungsten electrodes or 600 degree quartz envelope!

I can only hope that SMPTE was smart enough to include "High Altitude" specs in the D-Cinema standards for these expensive projectors since there can be alot to loose if everything is made automatic in that regard and not taken into account for. Problems relating to lamp life in Digital Projectors have already been a problem at Sundance over the years.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-12-2006, 02:28 PM:

Yea, BRAVO! .. on the Christie CXL series. LTi's....well they are not bad in newer consoles and healthy rectifiers, plus gives out very healthy light and a good color balance due to the closeness of the Kelvin temperature that LTi's can achieve, but put an Lti in anything older and tired ..... start sweating when they start to flicker, getting dark spots on the envelope and being a requirement to rotate on a regular basis....long before warranty hours have been achieved.

Yes, Lti's are tons cheaper and made down in Calif, BUT one should stay with those Japanese made Christies and pay the higher price, but will get their money's worth out of a Christie any day of the week..in the long run...

-Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-12-2006, 03:35 PM:

I would place ASLs just behind Christie and above SQP.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2006, 03:50 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Yes, Lti's are tons cheaper and made down in Calif, BUT one should stay with those Japanese made Christies and pay the higher price

Actually over the life span of a 2kw Christie that some of our customers are getting its overall cost is 75% less than the equivalent number LTI or OSRAM lamp. So over the long haul it is actually alot LESS EXPENSIVE since you'd be installing the 4th LTI or OSRAM lamps while the first Christie was still piling on hours.

Don't have any long running experience with ASL Lamps overall and we have pretty much stopped selling LTI completely. We had good luck with LTI at first but as time wore on the truth commeth out. Short lived, unstable, and Brad had one explode sitting on the shelf..... Similar experiences with OSRAM but the occasional OSRAM lamp does exceed its rated life.

Overall in the Mountain States I find there are so many variances in the amount of airflow. I have one location in Wyoming at 6237 feet running a 1200 cfm blower on a 2 kw eqyupped Super-Lum-Ex that still runs too hot. Even from season to season the air density has alot to do with the actual cooling one is acheiving and the overall lamp life.... but it certainly does seem that Christies operate in this area more efficiently and for alot longer periods irregardless of the inconsistencies in air flow.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-12-2006, 09:25 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
LESS EXPENSIVE since you'd be installing the 4th LTI or OSRAM lamps while the first Christie was still piling on hours.

..yea, that's what I meant - got the description turned around some..

Then, there is a goofball Chinese company (Chinese Lighting) that's selling bulbs to a good amount of cinemas, mainly in the east, that can even undercut the price of an LTi and still claim better light output and warranty support than any other, but still leary of such a claim or result of an unknown source.

-Monte

Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 03-13-2006, 04:14 AM:

I have had a lot of great experiances with Christie CXL30Rs. I had one I pulled out last year that had 5300 hours! And it was still very stable, just took a couple of strikes. I regularly get 3000 hours plus with these bulbs. I am operating at 106 amps and 27 volts.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-13-2006, 08:21 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Then, there is a goofball Chinese company (Chinese Lighting) that's selling bulbs to a good amount of cinemas, mainly in the east, that can even undercut the price of an LTi and still claim better light output and warranty support than any other, but still leary of such a claim or result of an unknown source.

They sold lamps top one of our customers for a while. All of them failed or exploded. Not only did we get the reflector sales on those but also the replacement lamps and their lamp buisness back again [Smile]