Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Simplex PR1050 intermittent shoe alignment

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Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 04-12-2006, 09:13 PM:

I have a Simplex 1050 which seems to have a shoe alignment issue. I have adjusted the gate closure so that the shoe just seats on the intermittent sprocket; however, when looking at the shoe in the seated position, the lower end of the shoe has a slight space while the upper portion of the shoe is snug in the sprocket. This is a curved gate with the shoe attached. At the bottom of the gate there is a tab that the intermittent shoe assembly screws to. Should I perhaps try bending this tab a bit to make the angle of the shoe mesh more completely with the sprocket?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-12-2006, 09:27 PM:

What is happening is that the gate isn't closing completely to the trap.

Take the gate off and on the inboard side of the trap, is a stop allen screw, right below the aperture plate area. Take a allen wrench and turn in this screw slightly. You probably will have to take off the trap from the mainframe in doing this adjustment. This will be a bit of a time consuming procedure to make the alignment correct.

What the correct setting is to where the shoe JUST begins to press fully on the sprocket, with no film loaded, with the gate completely closed.

DON't BEND ANYTHING....bad news on Simplexes...

-Monte

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-12-2006, 10:29 PM:

check and make sure that the screw that holds the shoe onto the gate is not loose. There is a tension spring type piece on that shoe assembly that can get a bit weak and not hold the shoe completely up against the sprocket. Run a test loop to verify picture steadiness. Look at the shoe while film is in the gate. You may find it looks perfectly normal.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 04-13-2006, 12:18 AM:

I'll be working with that projector next week. I'll try removing the shoe spring and giving it a little bend for added pressure. I'll also try adjusting the gate closed a little if needed to get full contact.

With regards to gate closure I encountered a projector one time where the gate adjustment screw had moved allowing the gate to shut very tightly. This machine had a lot of metal shavings on the floor below. I looked at the sprocket and the shoes but could not find the source of the metal shavings. Could these shavings perhaps come from the shoes?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-13-2006, 03:30 AM:

quote: Eric Robinson
Could these shavings perhaps come from the shoes?

....grinding on the flat surfaces of the sprockets with no film loaded in the machine...metal to metal...NASTY!

With that stop allen threaded in and the gate closing more tighter than it needs to be, the shoes on the INT sprocket are rubbing very tightly against the sprocket....

I bet that your INT sprockets needs to be changed out. Check this area over on your next week's visit.

-Monte

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-13-2006, 05:46 AM:

Left undone that "bad sprocket" has been known to cut film. Louis

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-13-2006, 10:12 AM:

"Don't bend anything" is a pretty good rule, especially if you aren't sure of what you're doing.
But... bending that bracket is the only way to adjust the sprocket shoe once the gate position is set correctly. I have to bend them on just about every machine I set up. Strong doesn't seem to have a procedure to set them up consistently and leaves the sprocket shoe way too tight on most new machines, and besides abrading the film this destroys the intermittent sprocket in short order if the machine is run with no film and the gate closed. The shoe should just touch the intermittent sprocket with the shoe curvature matching the sprocket diameter.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 04-14-2006, 10:46 AM:

This veers from the topic a bit, but I just learned an important detail about the intermittent sprocket alignment with the shoes.

When installing a new or rebuilt intermittent, the intermittent sprocket may not be laterally aligned to mesh with the sprocket shoes. The installer of the intermittent should loosen the intermittent sprocket set screw and align the sprocket so that it is centered in the shoes so that it does not rub the sprocket teeth on any of the shoe surfaces.

I have installed an intermittent in the past which I think must have had the sprocket slightly off to one side (for my projector) because this projector ended up being very loud and produced metal shavings on the floor which are likely from the shoes...and the sprocket teeth are now very sharp.

I learn something new every day.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-14-2006, 11:43 AM:

quote: Eric Robinson
When installing a new or rebuilt intermittent, the intermittent sprocket may not be laterally aligned to mesh with the sprocket shoes. The installer of the intermittent should loosen the intermittent sprocket set screw and align the sprocket so that it is centered in the shoes so that it does not rub the sprocket teeth on any of the shoe surfaces.

That statement is not entirely true... When installing a new movement or movement sprocket loosen the sprocket screw and using a PRECISION straight edge align the new intermittent sprocket's edge to the lower feed sprocket's edge. This way all the center lines of all the sprockets will be operating in exactly the same verticle plane. Then a slight shoe alignment to the sprocket may be in order. If things don't align correctly after setting the intermittent sprocket to its correct C/L then other gate/shoe related problems may exist.... such as a dropped gate [Eek!]

. Remember many of the Simplex's parts are made from nothing more than pot metal and this metal is quite soft!

There is also a standard spec for the height of the feed sprockets when the bushings are installed in the castings. If you ever replace those upper or lower bushings check back here before doing so!!!

If you run into a 1060 with that crappy swing up gate there are two options. The 1060 has a very sloppy and inconsistant pot metal bushing that the gate pivots in to swing open.

1. (expensive fix) Obtain a new tighter tolerance bushing from Wolk or....

2. (Sort of expensive fix) Switch over to a regular tooth sprocket(non VKF and still available from LaVezzi) so that the side play slop at the lower end of the gate won't interfer with the sprocket teeth. Also be sure the intermittent pad mounting block that screws to the curved tang is not distorted causing the pad assy to bind. The sprocket pad assy. HAS TO FLOAT on all X-L's!

Mark

Posted by Sean R. Custer (Member # 3531) on 04-14-2006, 05:08 PM:

Cheers on the 1050. Before setting that intermittent sprocket shoe clearance, may as well make sure there wasn't some previous molestation of the metal. If the shoe's been out of alignment for an appreciable time, it may still be hanging in there but could be so worn as to droop at the bottom. It could have carved a tiny notch for itself on the flange on the trap, and when you tighten it that's where it wants to fasten.
This will happen where people will find it loose, overtightnen, and repeat. Finally some weirdo will decide it will work better inverted.
If in doubt, replace the inner and outer flanges on the shoe. Especially if there's bright metal, usually from what I've seen on the inboard flanges. Also check the leaf spring tension. When correct there's appreciable slop on that set screw in every direction except inwards/outwards from center, but only against spring tension. This is one of those parts that likes to work right, but won't neccesarily let you know when it's wrong. Until it's REALLY wrong.
have a blast. -SRC

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 04-18-2006, 07:48 PM:

I just noticed today, a projector which seemed to generate a lot of film noise at the intermittent. After the show was over I checked it out and indeed the shoes seemed to be rubbing on the sprocket teeth. I checked the shoes (attached to the gate) and noted shiny areas. I checked the sprocket and noted groves in the faces of the teeth. The teeth probably catch on the film everytime it advances.

Another thing I noticed though is that the shoe assembly can be moved left and right about 1/16". Is this normal? If so, how do you know if the shoe is ever in the correct place?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2006, 10:29 PM:

Its not if the shoe is in the correct lace its actually if the sprockets in the correct place.....

If the sprocket IS in the correct place and the shoe is not then there is a gate or shoe tang problem.

Mark

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 04-18-2006, 10:38 PM:

I am trying to adjust the position of the intermittent sprocket so that it is shifted a bit towards the outboard to eliminate a shoe alignment problem. The problem I have is that the sprocket seems to be bound to the shaft. I have removed the screw and nut. So, what technique can I use to move a stubborn sprocket back and forth on the shaft without damaging the intermittent movement?

[ 08-05-2006, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Eric Robinson ]