Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: PLC Instead of Dedicated Automation

This is topic PLC Instead of Dedicated Automation in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 04-15-2006, 07:41 AM:

The company that I work for gets a lot into PLC's to run some of our more complex welding equipment. I have been learning a lot about them and the ladder-logic programming language. It seems like a PLC could do the same things a dedicated projector automation could with more flexibility for the future. In fact, I am wondering why companies like Eprad don't just fit a PLC into a pretty box and sell it as a projector automation rather than try ot re-invent the wheel and design dedicated systems. Can anyone shed some light on this? Has anyone tried running a system with a PLC?

I have two brand new CNA-100 automations sitting in the boxes but I am missing a board for each that contains many of the relays needed for input output. They retail for $600 each which is more than I paid for both automations combined. I guess they now have a all-in-one board that combines the previous two boards into one. Still expensive. Then I started thinking about this PLC option and how I could do it up for much cheaper. Ebay has thousands of them and they are pretty cheap for used ones in great shape. I could even go with a touch screen and set up the screen buttons how I would like to. [thumbsup]

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-15-2006, 08:30 AM:

Depends on how the design is done. For example if you buy a 'complete' PLC system, like the SLC500 or Micrologix, it can get expensive. This is because you are paying for the 'already designed' PC boards with IO, and the ease of working with relatively simple ladder logic. By the time you purchase all the modules for a system of this type, (to get the amount of IO you need) the price easily could be over $1500.

OTOH, if you just bought the controller IC itself (like the ones from Microchip) you must design your own PC board. Not really hard to do, but it can take a little longer then you'd think, because the design must be 'hardened' to withstand all of the noise form motors, xenon ignition, etc. Complete PLC systems cost more, beacuse this has been done for you.

For projector automations, it seems many people have kind of rolled their own, by using a standard microcontroller IC, like the INTEL 8051, dsigned their own PC board, and programed using something that generated regular machine code.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 04-15-2006, 08:40 AM:

Very interesting idea!

I was thinking to put PLC's instead of projector electronic, to get run projector with PLC, and one vompany did that. Czech Meopta have MEO5X series from 1978 and now they put some new things to him including PLC!

MEO5XB

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-15-2006, 11:11 AM:

The Iwerks 15/70 3-D system here near SLC uses a PLC system made by Allen Bradley. VERY RELIABLE! Except for the cost there is no reason not to use it for booth operations.

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-15-2006, 11:33 AM:

Both Jacro and Sound Associates here in the UK produce their own automations, both PLC based.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 04-15-2006, 11:41 AM:

My nearest Odeon muliplex has the last PLC Cinemation model.
Later Odeon installations have the Cinemeccanica PLC automations.

Vector 500/1000
In the last few years it became necessary to design a new generation of theatre automation that could be flexible, interactive, "intelligent" and modular.
To reach this goal Cinemeccanica has used and industrial logic programmer (with built-in microprocessor and memory).

FLEXIBILITY
Monitor and keyboard can be installed in multiple points (besides the projection room) and in this way they allow to change in any moment of the day the preset programming or the actual performance: the intermissions can be shortened, lengthened or suppressed, sound levels can be preset and type of sound reproduction (mono or different types of stereo) can be programmed.

INTERACTIVITY
The change of parameters is totally guided: the projectionist has only to answer yes or no to the questions the automation shows on the monitor. The automation also makes sure the answers are acceptable.
The programming can be protected by a keyword to limit the access to authorized people only.

INTELLIGENCE
The automation unit controls the running of the performance taking charge of projectors, light sources, sound sources and other theatre services. The status of the equipment is shown on the video.
Any fault activates a diagnostic routine and the projectionist can see flashing on any of the videos what is the problem that has occurred.

The automation unit also adds waiting times if the film has been incorrectly partioned between the two projectors.

MODULARITY
The automation unit can memorize and run personalized software. Extra input/output modules can be added to control any number of auxiliary theatre circuits.

http://www.soundassociates.co.uk/

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-15-2006, 03:51 PM:

PLC automations are used in some cinema situations in Spain, China, India and other locations.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-16-2006, 03:58 AM:

I'd forgotten about the Cinemec one, ta Bernard.

Posted by Patrick de Groot (Member # 858) on 04-16-2006, 05:34 AM:

That vector 2000 system from cinemeccanica looks likes it made in the 70's...

edit: I now see you were talking about thev vector 500/1000. It only shows a monitor on their website.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 04-16-2006, 03:36 PM:

A PLC will kick the ass of just about every other automation controller in every other field (not just cinema) except for one little problem - user flexibility. Although most "bigger" PLCs have a user control panel (a MMU - man machine interface, in the parlance) you can connect to the PLC, you can generally only adjust exposed variables, to change the program you need to, well, reprogram the PLCs.

Thats not to say you wont often find "PLC Inside" with a more flexible mechanism outside. Low end PLCs are now so cheap they are appearing in all sorts of places.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-19-2006, 09:06 PM:

Interesting thread. One of my current ASU classes is PLC programming.

"PLCs are normally used in industries where real-time control is necessary.

"In the late 1960s the automotive industry controlled many of its processes and machines with relay-based control systems. This was inefficient and costly to industry due to the following reasons:

Relays could only control on/off type operations, while manufacturing and process equipment was becomming more sophisticated.

Every time a new car model was introduced or a line change was made, it took days or weeks to change the wiring.

Relays were bulky and took up a lot of space.

In 1968, the Hydromatic Division of General Motors addressed these issues by drafting a set of specifications for a new type of solid state control system and presenting it to the control industry. In 1969 MODICON (MOdular Digital CONtroller) delivered the first PLC to GM.

PLC are able to withstand rugged industrial enviornments, are easily installed and maintained, modular, control flexibility (change program rather than wiring), easy transition for people who worked with relays"

Quotes curtesy of Jerry Gintz classroom Power Point lecture/presentation.

Allen-Bradley is the industry standard for PLCs, and this is what we are learning on.

Cheers

Kutler