Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cummings and Wilson (C&W) projectors

This is topic Cummings and Wilson (C&W) projectors in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Henry Titchen (Member # 3141) on 04-24-2006, 11:57 PM:

Hi,

Are there any/many Cummings and Wilson (C&W) projectors still in use in Australian Cinemas?

Thanks From,
Henry.

[ 04-28-2006, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Henry Titchen ]

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 04-25-2006, 08:13 AM:

there were 2 being used at the Southwest Roxy cinema over your way.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 04-25-2006, 11:48 PM:

There is a pair of machines at the Theatre Royal, Camperdown, Vic. (Raycophone CP7 configuration - installed new) and another similar pair at Swanpool, Vic. (previously used at The Civic, Rainbow Vic). The others I have seen operating around the east coast are now out of service, although there was a pair of Model B mechanisms (circa 1923) which were still running regularly well into the 1980's at Brunswick.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 04-26-2006, 12:29 AM:

Phillip, did you mean the Brunswick Liberty C and W plant? If so at least one projector from that plant survives. It leaked a little when I was projectionist there, but otherwise ran well. Westrex 14 arcs on the back. The slide projector was ancient too.

I think it last run in 1987.

David

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 04-26-2006, 01:38 AM:

Mt Vic Flicks has a pair. I know that they were overhauled in Melbourne a couple of years ago. They are running 6000ft spools.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 04-26-2006, 03:39 AM:

Yes David. Those were the machines.
I've remembered another pair up in the Blue Mountains at a place called Bundanoon. They were on MagnaCoustian soundheads. We spent the day converting them back to silent speed for "The Man from Kangaroo". Great fun.

Posted by Stephen Brown (Member # 292) on 04-26-2006, 03:47 AM:

The Lake Cinema at Boolaroo still has two working as changeover, with Carbon Arcs....Ahh the good ole days.

Having said that, I always thought the C&W stood for Crap and Worthless.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 04-26-2006, 03:58 AM:

Stephen!

Have you never run a Ballantyne?

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 04-26-2006, 03:43 PM:

Pictures?

Thomas

Posted by Henry Titchen (Member # 3141) on 04-27-2006, 04:07 AM:

Thomas,
Here is a picture of a Raycophone CP10 which used a C&W mechanism.
Henry.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-27-2006, 06:32 AM:

My father has a pair he's restoring (after a nitrate accident...not his) in his garage. I'll grab some pics and post them shortly.

[ 05-02-2006, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: John Wilson ]

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 04-27-2006, 07:08 AM:

Hi John. Is that a Western Electric soundhead fitted to the C+W pedestal? The projector head looks like a Model "E" of the "Senior" series.

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 04-27-2006, 08:22 AM:

Is that a Hall & Connelly reflector lamp?
Bob

Posted by Thomas Jonsson (Member # 1902) on 04-27-2006, 12:52 PM:

Thanks for the pictures! I´ve never heard of this machine.
Any delivered to the US or Europe?

The lamphouse on the second picture looks very much like a
Zeiss Ikon, but I guess it´s not?

Thomas

Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 04-27-2006, 07:31 PM:

There were a lot of C and Ws in New Zealand used on the Amalgamated Theatres ciruit. I never ran any myself but they seemed to run for ever. A friend has converted one into a portable because the mechanism is quite small.

Posted by Henry Titchen (Member # 3141) on 04-28-2006, 07:28 PM:

Does anyone have any knowledge of a rough Chronology/Timeline for the Cummings and Wilson /Raycophone projectors?

I know of the following units:
C&W P4 head
C&W P5 head
C&W P6 head
C&W Model E,G
Raycophone J1
Raycophone J3
Raycophone CP7
Raycophone CP10

An ideas on when these units were made? Are there other models?

Henry.

[ 04-30-2006, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Henry Titchen ]

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 05-01-2006, 08:27 PM:

Hi Phillip,
Yes that is a Western Electric sound head on the C&W.Had that same model at the Paragon Theatre in Queenstown Tas when I first started in the industry many moons ago and the were still in use when the theatre closed in 1985,they had Centrex projectors on them.Used the C&W projectors a few times over the years and found them to be a good projector requireing little maintainence and were chain driven same as the Kinoton is today.

Cheers
Steve

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 05-09-2006, 12:24 AM:

Here is some information I have picked up over the years on the different types of C+W mechanism.

Model (A) Approximately 6 manufactured. None know to survive.

Model (B) Built 1923 onwards. Over 200 manufactured. This is the larger "Senior" pattern. Front shutter. Framing moves entire film motion plate, other than the gate, up and down. Double-bearing intermittent. 2 inch lens mount with rack and pinion focus. Many subsequently rebuilt to later models, such as E and (possibly) EH.

Model (D) C. 1929. Very similar to "B" with the addition of a sliding mask in the gate to cover soundtrack area of film.

Model (E) Available in 1930's. "Senior" pattern. Large rear shutter in external case. Maybe new build or factory conversion from earlier machines. Stepped lens mount with vernier focusing.

Model (H) Also "Senior" pattern. Small diameter rear shutter inside main case. Stepped lens mount.

Model (EH) Last of the "Senior" pattern. Large diameter rear shutter in external case. Improved lens mount for large diameter lenses. Micrometer focusing.

Model (P5) Introduced c. 1932. Compact completely redesigned mechanism intended for use on portable sound machines. Lightweight construction. Known as the "Junior". Rear shutter usually in external case. Short gate. 2" diameter lens mount. Micrometer focusing. Single-bearing intermittent. Often seen on Raycophone J1 portable system. Also used on stationary projectors.

Model (P6) Slightly taller than P5. Otherwise similar. Has longer gate with two sets of pads. Rear shutter usually small diameter inside main case. (less efficient as a result) Fitted to the earlier (c 1937) Raycophone J3 machines. Also seen on Raymac equipment.

Model (P7) Last of the "Junior" construction. Has the long gate of the P6 and the large external shutter of the P5. Often found inside the Raycophone J3 light transportable projector and their CP7 stationary machine.

Model (P8) A more rugged construction of the same basic design, including cast aluminium covers. Improved lens mount for faster lenses.

Model (M1) A further development of the design, with some operator friendly refinements. Double bearing intermittent. Appears to have been a separate picture head to be fitted to various makes of soundhead. Often seen seen on Raymac stationary projectors.

Model (M2) The M1 as fitted inside the Raycophone CP10 projector. Solid construction and reasonably efficient optically. Water cooling to gate.

Model (G) A separate heavy duty picture head with design and construction distinctly different from other models. Similar to Century and Australian "Super Standard" Heavy cast case. Contra-rotating rear shutters. Double-bearing intermittent. Large diameter lens mount. Optional air cooling and water cooling to gate. Believed introduced in middle 1950's. Also found in drive-ins. Will match all makes of soundhead. Had a reputaion for being very noisy.

There appear to be two runs of serial numbers. The first series applies to the "Senior" pattern and appears to have begun at #1 and be progressive throughout those models. Model B and E machines have their date of manufacture stamped into the frame. The second series of numbers appears to have begun at #1 with the P5 and to be continuous through to the M2. I have not been able to establish where the model G fits in this scheme. Production of the C+W appears to have ceased with the M2 in the early 1970's. There would appear to have been in excess of 2000 units produced over the life of the company.

If anyone can add to or wants to correct any of this information I would be interested to hear from them.
Cheers.

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 03-13-2007, 12:09 AM:

One of the members of The Australian Museum of Motion Picture Technology has put together a great history on C&W projectors and even tracked down copied of all the patent photos. You can view all this now I have uploaded it to our website.

Cumming and Wilson History

There are lots of great photos there too!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 03-16-2007, 11:03 AM:

Very interesting page Paul. Richard acknowledges the photo suppliers, but who supplied all the technical information for the article?

Is the Super Standard and the other Fittons projectors next?

David

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 03-16-2007, 08:24 PM:

David the technical info was also put together by Richard, that is my fault for not also putting that with the acknowledgements at the bottom, but the top of the page I put written by Richard Ashton. There will be more pages about various Australian made equipment, depending on who sends in stuff to be posted!

We watched a really interesting video of a tour of the Raycophone factory at out last meeting. It was from 1935 and showed the motion picture part and then the radio parts of the factory.