quote: Frank Angel

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I bought a copy for a mere $4.

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They are selling them for $5 in Manhattan. For a time when they stocked VHS versions those went for $5 and the DVD went for $10 on the streets. It's fun to see NYPD raiding the street sellers in Harold Square and along Broadway towards Chinatown. When PD rolls up they all start running like roaches, the women sellers in Chinatown try to run with their carts of crap. But now the sellers use small suitcases and large shopping bags to carry the crap around. The sellers think there safe till the PD rolls up. There is a code word they use for the PD. And this goes for the Fake bags and sun glasses and CDs they sell around many of the streets here in New York City.
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-03-2006, 02:36 PM:
 
I think this shows that many copies come from someone 'inside' either at the DVD manufacturing plant, the authoring stage or the studios themselves. I've heard it's a status-thing to be the first to create and release a good bootleg copy of a film; sometimes with a few extras that are not/won't be on the legal release.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-03-2006, 02:41 PM:
 
Other links on Film Tech indicate that there is no one who is interested enough to come when called; not the FBI or local cops. The bootleggers have won. Louis
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-03-2006, 03:23 PM:
 
Frank, this is exactly why the industry is so concerned about piracy, and why we have CAP codes. The industry has a real problem, and they are trying to do something about it.

We may not agree that CAP codes are a good solution, but this should drive home Why they have happened. They are one of many attempts to try to solve this problem. And it is a really hard problem.

Lest you think otherwise, organized crime is heaviliy involved in the supply chain of these pirated movies. That dramatically complicates solving the problem.

As Louis mentions, I emailed the mpaa hotline address in December 2003 asking what to do when you see street vendors selling DVDs of unreleased movies. I never got a response.

Oh, and by the way Frank, it's not "Day and Date." Frequently the pirated versions are available BEFORE theatrical release.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 05-04-2006, 02:14 AM:
 
Yes, we have CrAP codes to ID bootlegs if anyone in power actually gets their hands on them (which they don't) and to piss off and drive away paying customers.

I've seen some guy selling bootleg movies outside one of the Wal-Marts around here on THREE separate occasions; he stands by the front door saying "I got all the latest movies" and has them in a briefcase. I didn't buy any from him, but I got a crappy Video CD of Star Trek Nemesis at one of the flea markets from a guy with a similar setup- this was camcordered from inside a theater and had some web address at the bottom of the screen.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-04-2006, 06:30 AM:
 
So Frank, did "your" copy of the DVD have CAP Codes in the picture? Just curious if they beat that too. If so, then it also shows by the CAP codes are stupid. If they are there, then I'd like to see if this can be traced to the source to prove who caused this theft.
 

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Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 05-04-2006, 10:18 AM:
 
Frank,
I would suggest the bootleg disc be turned over to Univeral. All the distributors have very active anti-piracy departments, and they will know how to investigate it.

DM
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-04-2006, 11:24 AM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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So Frank, did "your" copy of the DVD have CAP Codes in the picture? Just curious if they beat that too. If so, then it also shows by the CAP codes are stupid. If they are there, then I'd like to see if this can be traced to the source to prove who caused this theft.

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quote:

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Los Angeles
15503 Ventura Blvd.
Encino, California 91436
(818) 995-6600 (main)
(818) 382-1795 (fax)

New York (Anti-Piracy Office)
One Executive Blvd. Suite 455
Yonkers, NY 10701
(914) 378-0800 (main)
(914) 378-0048 (fax)

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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I suppose the authorities can't really do anything about small-timers like the guy on the corner...they need to bust the places where these are being run off. And the guy on the corner probably doesn't even know where that is.

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quote: Louis Bornwasser

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It would encourage me to know if they have EVER nailed anyone. LOuis

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The MPAA website has had press releases detailing their bigger "busts" of pirate operations.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 05-04-2006, 05:37 PM:
 
I don't know that I'd contact the authorites. You bought it being "curious" about the condition of the movie. That means you knew you were buying a bootleg movie. I think that would open yourself up to a lot of problems you dont need. Maybe mail it in annonymously telling them where you bought it....sell it to me, I havent seen it yet
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-04-2006, 06:53 PM:
 
The MPAA and all the other Anti-Piracy divisions all know about that you can get this weeks blockbuster on almost any street corner in NYC. They are looking for where these originals are coming from. They do check post houses in the city. The problem is that some film materials do not carry full ID's for tracking.

The NYPD does go after many types of bootleg items like fashions , purses, watches, CDs and DVDs. And each week they do make bust around the city. The guys on the street are the little fishes.

Frank enjoy your dinner at Peter Lugars.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 05-04-2006, 07:26 PM:
 
I turned someone in once through the hotline. It wasn't until, what, 6 months later that the guy got busted.

Turns out that the MPAA did follow up on my call. The investigation on the piracy turned south when it was realized that the guy had a major drug operation going too. Again though, the guy was selling digital versions of movies that were not even in theatres. This Cap Code stuff, and the camcorder reward programs are a bunch of crap. 90 percent of these films on the street are from hard drives at the film companies. They are in denial about this. I have stopped calling the MPAA on the bootlegs - because the whole thing is a joke.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-05-2006, 07:46 AM:
 
Of [i]course[i/] there are no CAP codes on this copy; as most of us have concluded, films transferred at the theatre level are not the high quality stuff that overseas markets are interested in. That market of millions of foreigners that purportedly cause the industry to loose 6 BILLION dollars (you've got to sell a hellofa lot of DVDs at 10 pesos each to loose that kind of money), the bootleg product has to be as good as commercial DVDs. Come on, it's no secret....we all know where the "good stuff" comes from and it's not from the trenchcoat guy. The fact that when it comes from Academy screener copies, or from a post production house, THOSE are the copies that are the real danger.

You don't see them busting any big wigs on the studio side of the industry, and even if they did, you sure won't hear them crowing about it on any website or doing a press release to the evening news.

How do I know this DVD came from the post production lab level and that it wouldn't be too difficult with a little good sleuthing to figure out where it originated? Because when I posted here yesterday, I hadn't looked past the main titles and the opening exposition scenes which had no dialogue, low and behold, this is Spanish subtitled version. So it had to come from some lab where they do the subtitling....I am guessing this wasn't farmed out to very many post production houses to do this.

As for turning it in and then somehow getting hassled legally about it, well, that would be the height of stupidity on their part and proof that these people are half-wits.

John H., when you say they are trying to address the problem, My feeling about this is a bit more cynical. I think what is really going on is that they are trying to make themselves FEEL like they are doing something about it. I understand that it must be very frustrating and a slap in the face to head honcho studio execs to see their product being sold by someone else on a street corner or worse, knowing that in China they are running the studio's spanking new release in thousands of theatres on consumer grade DLP players and there is little to nothing they can do about it. Men who consider themselves privileged and powerful don't like to feel impotent and ineffectual. Sending out press releases and showing that they are DOING something, no matter how ineffectual and sometimes down right silly may not stop bootlegging -- don't these loss numbers they release every year keep going UP? How is that an indictation that ANYTHING they do is working? As for silly, I call your attention to that accusatory, mood-ruining There-Are-Copyright-Infringing-Pirates-Everywhere- Maybe-Even-In-This-Theatre-Sitting-Next-To-You- And-The-FBI-Is-Gonna-Throw-Them-In-Jail- And-You-Better-Cooperate-Or-Else trailer. As far as I am concerned, the crap code is the pinnacle of stupidity. It a kind of paranoia psychotic self-mutilation where they degrade the very product they want to protect, like an artist to slashes his canvas with a razor blade so that no one will steal it.

Well, no matter how it gives them bragging rights at their brie and wine cocktail parties so they can pontificate about how piracy is such a tremendous problem but how they are taking heroic measures to thwart the bootlegging bad guys, the fact is that they need to look hard in places where the don't seem to be looking, i.e., in their own back yard.....or how bout in their own home screening rooms where they bring all their guests after dinner to surprise them with a screening of that yet-to-be-released film. With their love of digital, I bet they no longer even use answer prints for those private vanity screenings....no doubt they use DVD copies and project with the best video projectors available! And it doesn't take a brain surgern to know, once a single DVD is ripped for this kind of thing, the master is out of the bag so to speak. It's a lot harder to copy a 35mm print than it is a studio staff's screener DVD.

Hey, they are the ones in love digital!

[ 05-05-2006, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-05-2006, 12:47 PM:
 
I agree with everything you say, Frank, except

quote:

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6 BILLION dollars (you've got to sell a hellofa lot of DVDs at 10 pesos each to loose that kind of money),

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To be fair, they figure the "loss" at the suggested list price, which is also dumb but it makes for a bigger number.

They figure that everyone who buys a bootleg DVD would have bought a movie ticket (or a genuine DVD) but there's no way to prove that.

There's just no way to stop this problem as long as DVDs are made by the studios before the film's release date. And those pre-release DVDs are a valuable tool for them, so they might as well learn to live with the problem -- or do what really needs to be done, which is stop handing out DVDs to every Tom Dick and Harry.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-05-2006, 02:24 PM:
 
Frank: no "wine & brie" try COKE! How's that for cynical. Louis
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-06-2006, 11:18 AM:
 
Frank, I think that the new highly-visible CAP code is not cheap. Somebody had to design this stuff and build printers and productionize it and get the labs and studios on board.

And really, for all the negative reactions to it you've seen in our commnuity, of exhibition projectionists (plus Bill ), can you really imagine that the studio technical people and studio projectionists could possibly have liked what they're doing?

Sure, be cynical. But I don't think the suggestion that CAP code was easy to pull off or done casually holds water.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-06-2006, 10:21 PM:
 

quote: John Hawkinson

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I think that the new highly-visible CAP code is not cheap. Somebody had to design this stuff and build printers and productionize it and get the labs and studios on board.

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quote:

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I know they have recently invented some really neat "tricks" to hide it [CAP code] better

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quote:

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Being part of Philips Technology Incubator, we position ourselves as a technology provider of both audio and video identification solutions. Our current list of technologies includes: video and audio watermarking, and video fingerprinting. In August 2005, our leading audio fingerprinting technology was transferred to Gracenote.

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quote:

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Acting Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI's Los Angeles Field Office James Sheehan announced today the arrest of William Sprague, a resident of Homewood, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago) on charges of criminal copyright infringement and illegal interception of a satellite signal. The arrest was made in connection with a Los Angeles-based investigation into the compromise of a multitude of major motion pictures that surfaced on the Internet, many prior to their theatrical and/or DVD release.

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quote:

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the FBI's Los Angeles Field Office James Sheehan announced today the arrest of William Sprague, a resident of Homewood, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago)

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quote: John Hawkinson

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Sure, be cynical. But I don't think the suggestion that CAP code was easy to pull off or done casually holds water.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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In the end they have two choices: eliminate that convenience for all those VIPs and get serious about policing and protecting their data OR just stop bitching and accept the problem for what it is.

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Seems to be if I were loosing SIX BILLION dollars every year I sure as hell wouldn't give a rats ass how inconvenient it is for all the voting members of the Academy or how perturbed the big wigs get because they can't show a title while it is still being edited. These people would have to watch the movie on film or not at all...period! They were able to do it BV (before video); it won't kill them to do it again. In fact, maybe the MPAA should produce one of those "informational" trailers they are so adept at, taking aim at the top end of the industry, admonishing them to sacrifice a little comfort for the good of their own industry....tell them to turn in to the FBI anyone of their friends who has a home theatre where they are showing DVDs of current releases. The trailer would show a 35mm projector with a voice-over saying the use of DVDs rather than film for VIP private screening parties is a cancer in the belly of the industry.
 

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Posted by Jean-Pierre Van Hoof (Member # 2063) on 05-13-2006, 07:00 AM:
 

quote: Frank Angel

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My point exactly. Yah, they might grab and idiot here and there, but has anyone EVER seen the name of a studio executive or a big star or producer or director or DP being dragged off by the FBI?

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quote:

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Most of the compromised movies listed above had been provided to Carmine Caridi, a veteran actor of film and television, and a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for approximately 22 years. Investigation of Caridi revealed that for at least the last three years, he had supplied Russell William Sprague with virtually every Academy screener (approximately 60 movies per year). A search warrant at the Sprague residence in Illinois was executed with the assistance of the FBI's Chicago Division today. Hundreds of Academy screeners were seized, many of which had been converted to DVD, along with an array of duplication equipment. A quantity of illegal satellite television interception equipment was also seized during the search.

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