Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Foil Cue Size

This is topic Foil Cue Size in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 05-26-2006, 02:21 AM:

Our auto works faultlessly with a centre foil cue no larger than 5mm square. Yet I sometimes have to peal off 30mm lengths over the image when the print comes from another cinema.

Also, I do find edge cues difficult to remove.

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-26-2006, 02:36 AM:

We try to keep the foil between 3mmm och 5mm.
A cue over 10mm are sometime missed.

To make the foil que easyer to remove we put splicing tape between the film and the cue.

Posted by Chris Unwin (Member # 3792) on 05-26-2006, 03:07 AM:

try buying the precut tabs of foil. Much easier & quicker, plus if you are using the splicer guilotine to cut the foil it will get dull VERY QUICKLY!

Posted by Nick Scott (Member # 2850) on 05-26-2006, 06:43 AM:

Those edge cue's are a gem to remove with a dab of Film Guard 2 rubs and shes sweet. [thumbsup]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-26-2006, 07:20 AM:

Different brands of automation and cue sensors require diffent lengths and widths and in some cases different grades of tape
One size doesn't fit all

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 05-26-2006, 03:03 PM:

I'd rather have an edge cue that can be hidden amongst black & fade outs than anything within the image area. About 5 cm. of silver works for our detectors, which are all quite old. I'm very glad to not be working with the Maxi 12X-PC (now Big Sky) units with their opticue matrix, anymore. Too much finger contact to remove those frame line rectangles! [evil]

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 05-26-2006, 09:24 PM:

Paer, isn't it easier to put the tape (16mm will suffice) over the cue, without removing the backing paper?

Then you can simply peal off the tape and lift the foil off. You can even use that cue again on another print.

So Gordon, size does matter, for some systems anyway. Pity. But it does look obtrusive.

And I must remember to have the FilmGuard handy for those stubborn foils. Embarassing how I give this advice to others and forget to use it myself.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-26-2006, 09:48 PM:

A question from a non-automation booth guy....these cues are always applied to the base side of the film and not on the emulsion, right? I have had to remove foil from the sprocket hole edge in which the foil was folded over both sided of the film --- seemed like over-kill to me (and a pain to remove). Is this designed like this or is it just guys finding it easier to fold over tape rather than trim it?

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 05-26-2006, 11:18 PM:

Frank, I think that the person making up the print can’t remember which side of the film the sensor reads so they put a strip on both sides, whether it is a centre or side cue. While they’re having a bit on the side, some of those foils must upset the SDDS track.

After hearing a story from another cinema, we always check for cues at the end of spools. Automated changeover houses can cause your show to close down in the middle of a film.

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 05-26-2006, 11:26 PM:

Or a square of aluminium foil (for lining baking trays etc) attached with splicing tape works just as well, and you can cut it to measure.

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 05-27-2006, 12:31 AM:

Used hub caps can be stuck on with blue-tac as well

Posted by Paer Hoegberg (Member # 3133) on 05-27-2006, 01:24 AM:

Sound up on the platter, foil on the outside.
That way its easyer to find when breaking down.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-27-2006, 04:02 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
Is this designed like this or is it just guys finding it easier to fold over tape rather than trim it?

There are some failsafe units that uses a device called a 'grounding roller' - a roller that is constructed of aluminum that was always ahead of the two sensing roller(s) that are on each side of the film which contains the communication wire(s) that would run to the automation.

The film ran in front, or between the grounding roller and the sensing roller to make a complete circuit to began that programmed sequence. And, it needed the foil to be on both sides of the film...and the long length needed to close the dry contacts in the relay to actuate the cam motors.

We would always change out our sensing foil once a week due to the severe cracking of the foil tape. When the foil tape begins to crack, it makes it harder to make the complete circuit to close the relay to actuate the cam motors in the automation.

Some automations required that the non-soundtrack side was destined for dowser drop and houselight up. Others were the common soundtrack side. Then, you get those that have dual channels - inboard for the lights up and outboard for the dowser drop.

The four plex that I worked at, we ran soundtrack down and had the dual channel foil cue system..

-Monte

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 05-28-2006, 01:10 AM:

quote: Ron Curran
Used hub caps can be stuck on with blue-tac as well

Dude, it works well without leaving residue. Obviously the pre-used prints I get have used "stick on" foil, as they cut the thing out instead of ripping it off & removing residue.

Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 05-28-2006, 02:45 AM:

I don't have automation and remove all cues religiously. I do media screenings for several art house distributors and I used to get prints that had been made up by the mulitplex due to screen it onto their 6k reels. They had applied their own cues and I would still remove them, even though I only screened the film once after which the print is returned to them. I just can't stand the sight of them, especially the larger sized ones.

quote: Ron Curran
After hearing a story from another cinema, we always check for cues at the end of spools. Automated changeover houses can cause your show to close down in the middle of a film.

This happened several times at the Village City Centre cinemas when the hosted the Melbourne International Film Festival over the last few years. On these occasions the 600+ (sometimes 800) strong audience weren't happy at all.

Posted by William Collins (Member # 3773) on 05-28-2006, 04:43 AM:

I use small circles sticker foils for my automation, i fold them over the side so that you cant see it flash onscreen. I know their a pain the remove, but i'd rather have less flashing black blobs on screen than worry about how easy it is to take the cues off.

I used to use foil Cue tape, that we had to cut off in strips, and that did get dull very quickly, especially when people used to put the cues in the wrong place and needed to be replaced. these stickers make it so much easier!

Posted by David Ingalsbe (Member # 2433) on 05-29-2006, 03:40 AM:

Some Automations do require the tape to be put on the edge of the print. For my system I have to put three sets on the sound track side. I fold it over for simplicity and as a back up.( metal proxy type). Where I can like the first que to take the lights down for the movie I insert a 4 foot section of black film between the previews and the movie to put the que on. On older / special prints I put clear splice tape down and punch the que tape to that easy removal. The SDDS system should not care about the cue tape since the S and P tracks contain the same data. also if you think foil tape is bad wait till you get a print with the UA barcode cues [eyes]

Posted by William Collins (Member # 3773) on 05-29-2006, 03:49 AM:

What are they like then...?

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 05-29-2006, 06:19 PM:

If the last theatre didn't place them on a layer of clear splice tape, they're a debacle.