Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: super 35 and aperture plates

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-04-2006, 08:10 PM:

What is the easiest way to cut aperture plates for 2.39:1 super 35 material (full width, no soundtrack)? I made an attempt at this tonight, but a standard 1.85 plate is slightly too tall. Does one need to start with a pinhole plate, or is there a standard size which is slightly shorter than 1.85?

This was for film tests for a local production. The screening is over, but I'd like to know how to best do this if/when the issue comes up again. The projectors in question are Century Cs, but I'd be curious to know if any manufacturer sells pre-cut plates for this application.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-04-2006, 09:03 PM:

Have been on many Super 35 productions! No ready mades available for any projector that I am aware of. Use the production's focus/framing leader(if they have it) to carve your own from pinhole plates. Use a nibbling tool to get close and a file to clean it up to size. Take your time and be careful and you'll get it the first time around. Also... if they care to, have the DP, editor, and director look at it to make sure it is the final plate that THEY want watch THEIR film through.

Mark

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-04-2006, 09:10 PM:

The one time I had to do it, we started with a pair of "1-under" 1.85 plates for the Simplex XLs. The height ended up working perfectly on their focus leader with only a little touch up filing needed.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-05-2006, 06:53 AM:

Simplex and Century plates have a 2:1U version that may work as a starting point. Kinoton does offer various precut S35 plates...I'm not sure where they got their numbers though...the width is pretty much perf-to-perf (.413" x .969").

[ 06-05-2006, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-05-2006, 08:38 AM:

The "extracted" areas for Super-35 are as follows:

1.85:1: 0.945 x 0.511 inches

2.39:1: 0.945 x 0.394 inches

The vertical centerline of the image is on the film centerline, nominally 0.688 inches from the reference edge (outboard edge in the projector) of the film.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-05-2006, 05:33 PM:

For a one-off screening, would it not be easier to mask it on the port glass?

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-05-2006, 06:20 PM:

Typically, when one is doing a Super-35 show, it is to verify that the day's shoot was good...a port glass aperture would not be sufficient...furthermore, unless short focal length lenses are used, it is likely that the port tape would not be enough in focus to provide anything resembling a crisp edge.

Steve

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-05-2006, 11:40 PM:

In this case, it wasn't particularly critical; they were testing a couple of different camera stocks (5229 and 5279) and a bleach-bypass process on the negative. The DP suggested running it with the 1.85 plates, but was quite pleased that I was able to cobble together something a bit more appropriate (he didn't want to use the full-frame silent plate). (No one had bothered to tell me the format until showtime, unfortunately.)

Unfortunately, they will be getting dailies on DVD and not film for this production (it's a fairly low-budget affair), though they might have an occasional roll printed and thus might need a proper super-35 plate at that time.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-10-2006, 12:04 PM:

For whatever it's worth, I dug up a smaller 1.85 plate (like what Paul had, I guess) where the height worked out perfectly; we've had several more screenings and the DP has been very happy. Thanks for the advice above.

It has been a somewhat interesting experience--they have done film stock tests, bleach-bypass tests, wardrobe tests, filter tests, and exposure tests.

In case anyone cares, this is the film in question. It is expected to be released in about a year.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-10-2006, 12:25 PM:

You're getting a screen credit, I hope? [Smile]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-10-2006, 12:58 PM:

No idea. Is there a polite way to ask about this? I've mostly been dealing with a pleasant but overworked PA on the phone and the DP at the screenings.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-10-2006, 02:18 PM:

On the deal memo I signed at the beginning of the shoot, they asked how you wanted your name to appear in the credits, assuming the producer approved. In the end it was the producer that decided. Guess she liked me. [Smile]

BTW Scott, if they're only looking at a few things in 35mm, how are they doing that? Portable double-system 35mm package set up somewhere? Using a local screen that can be set up for such things?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-10-2006, 02:51 PM:

Scott, don't be shy. I've seen many a credit crawl that gives such a credit, as in Dailies Projection: Scott Norwood. Just ask the PA if they give screen credit for the dailies projectionist. Nowadays they certainly aren't stingy about the credit crawl....everyone and his brother gets credit. Surely it's not out of place to expect that the dailies projectionist should get a listing. But do ask; some productions are super organized, some are not. I just did narration on a small project and when I handed the producer a card with my name and said, this is the correct spelling for the screen credit, there was this look for a fraction of a second that told me she hadn't even thought about it, but of course she quickly recovered and said fine and that she was just about to ask me. On the other hand, when I did audio for an HBO production, I didn't have to ask. Professionals who know what they are doing know that screen credits are super important.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-10-2006, 03:15 PM:

It's a regular theatre, although one that does not show film on a regular basis and which is available for rental. We have done a double-system screening there before (for a completed film, with a rental dubber setup from CTS in New York...Brad has pictures of this and needs to post them), but everything that I have shown to date for this film has been MOS.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-10-2006, 03:16 PM:

Scott, I've found the best way to insure screen credit is hold the negatives hostage as in the film "Hijacking Hollywood" [Cool]

Speaking of screen credits... I should point out Tim's contribution and screen credit in the excellent documentary "Drive-in Movie Memories" [beer]

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-10-2006, 08:18 PM:

Huh? Where, where?! IMDB has always shortchanged me. [Roll Eyes]

Although, I do have screen credit in two episodes of That 70s Show; a documentary called Dusk to Dawn: Kentucky's Rural Drive-In Theatres; a movie called And They're Off, which was never released, and happened to be George Clooney's first picture. Director's credit on several of my Screen Attractions' projects, and a couple other commercial things.

quote: Frank Angel
I just did narration on a small project

Wha.. with THAT accent?! [Big Grin]

So, let's HEAR some of this stuff, Frank!

quote: Scott Norwood
Is there a polite way to ask about this?

Scott, I got with the production manager on the Clooney picture, the producers on the documentaries, and a visuals coordinator I dealt with on "That 70s Show". I had my screen credit built into the contract on that one. I'd bring it up with the PA you're working with. The DP really has nothing to do with it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-10-2006, 08:22 PM:

Scott, for Super 35 I always start with a pinhole plate, drill it out just enough to insert a nibbler. From there I get it semi-close (don't get to overzealous) and file out the rest.

If you need, I'll nibble and file you out an undercut Century Super 35 plate and you can finish filing it out to tweek the final projected image to your masking or the DP's alignment film.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-11-2006, 12:41 AM:

Tim, I provided the IMDB link as reference to the film.

I saw your name in the credit roll at the end of the film. [thumbsup]

Sorry for the confusion... [Razz]