Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Devil Wears Prada (Defective Reel)

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Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 01:18 AM:

Anyone else have any problems with Reel 3 On Devil Wears Prada? We had a color defect on ours (kept on showing a lot of 'Yellow') The on duty manager ordered a new reel, but I just wanted to see if this was a common thing with this print.

Though I must say it was a very well done movie.

-Donna

*Btw, Hello! This is my first time posting on these forums.

Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 06-29-2006, 01:29 AM:

Who was the lab? It wouldn't be Deluxe, now would it?

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 01:46 AM:

I actually dont know which lab it was, I can check when I go to work in the morning. I wasnt the on clock projectionist, only the on duty OC.

Anyways why do you mention Deluxe? Are they bad?

Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 06-29-2006, 01:55 AM:

Bad, no, not really. They can do, and have done, some fantastic work. We've gotten prints from them that was so vibrant and clear, it'd hurt too look at it. Their problem, for the most part, seems to be QC and Consistancy. They will occasionally have a movie where they used different stocks of film to print on, which can be fine, but the color tone, or other characteristics are slightly different. Thus you end reel one, and go to reel 2, and the color is slightly warmer, or brighter, etc. Sometimes this will happen mid-reel, with a lab splice in the middle.

Also, some more minor issues are with poor printing of digital sountracks, and timecode for the DTS. Causing them to cut out.

So, yeah, a color change, or even bad coloring alltogether doesn't surpise me too much. Deluxe does it, even if not often. This is just from my experince, others my have different experinces with them.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 02:02 AM:

Well I will have to check it out and keep that in mind the next time this happens. But the colors after a splice did change a bit through out the movie, though since I was the only one who had projection experience out of the employees watching it, I was the only one who noticed, so its not bad enough other than the yellow tint that came about in reel 3.

I wonder if I can access this web site at work (they block alot of sites we SHOULD be able to use)

Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 06-29-2006, 02:06 AM:

Regal gives us internet acess, but only to a very small handfull of sites. You should be able too read the heads or tail to see, or it may be on the can's label. But I'm pretty sure it'll be on the film itself.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 02:12 AM:

Yeah Im with AMC (previously Loews building). And they even blocked us from the DTS site! Its insane! So Ill check the reels, and get back to ya on this [Wink]

Thank you for your reply. Ill be sure to use the forums more often now.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-29-2006, 02:45 AM:

Lab is DeLuxe Labs, for "Prada" is a FOX release..DeLuxe had done some printing errors in their time...due to highspeed contact printing...

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 02:51 AM:

Looks like someone beat me to it [Smile]

Thanks for the info [Smile]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-29-2006, 03:04 AM:

www.dtsonline.com .. for that site address..

Yea, check with your booker and see if ETS will send you that replacment reel...and do tell your superiors of this changeout...for film companies really need to know the skinnies on why a reel has to be changed out.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-29-2006, 09:09 AM:

A color change around a lab splice is sometimes due to fogging from the "safelight" used to help the lab technician make the ultrasonic splice in the darkroom. Usually safelight fogging is blue/cyan in color.

Any lab can have a bit of reel-to-reel color variability, since the reels are often printed and processed on different days, and even on different equipment. Not a unique problem to Deluxe.

Most labs are able to keep the variation to less than a printer light or so (0.025 log exposure or 1/12 of a stop in printer exposure).

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 09:46 AM:

Yea I remember on our 'must love dogs' print, two reels were defective (blue tint). I thought it was very odd that this one was yellow tinted, but I dont know anything about how film is processed. Ill make sure the upper management ordered a new reel.

The yellow tint went on for about 3 minutes after the 3rd reels beginning splice.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-29-2006, 10:41 AM:

An overall yellow/brown coloration (including the clear edges of the print) usually indicates that the unprocessed film was fogged by accidental exposure to a tungsten, daylight, or fluorescent light source. The blue-sensitive layer in print film is the most sensitive, and if fogged, will form yellow dye.

Again, if you see significant fogging of the clear areas of a print, a replacement print should be requested.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 12:15 PM:

Im ordering a replacement reel now (apparently the on duty manager doesnt know how to do this) so Im on the phone with the proper people now.

I just hope it comes in time for fridays first show, the yellow tint is really bothersome.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 06-29-2006, 12:22 PM:

I've seen such a defect occasionally, but not often, and in greater frequency from Deluxe, it seems. Often, it's the soundtrack wavering into the image area. I usually just splice out the defective footage, as I would a lab splice. Unless it becomes excessive in how often it occurs throughout the reel.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-29-2006, 12:41 PM:

quote: Steve Scott
Often, it's the soundtrack wavering into the image area. I usually just splice out the defective footage, as I would a lab splice. Unless it becomes excessive in how often it occurs throughout the reel.

An advantage of cyan dye analog soundtracks, as wandering of the application of the viscous developer required to develop silver in the analog soundtrack was an occasional QC issue for labs.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 01:09 PM:

Unluckly for myself the tint continues through out the reel for about 3-5 mintues off and on. The place we are ordering the replacement reel from told me they would call me back, I hate waiting. [Frown]

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 06-29-2006, 01:47 PM:

And in doing this, how much of the film are you eliminating? This could affect dialog, specific shots, etc.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 06-29-2006, 02:07 PM:

I had no problems with the prints of "Devil Wears Prada" here in NYC.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 02:48 PM:

*sigh* still waiting to hear back from my booker and such. At this rate Im starting to think they wont get that reel to me on time [Frown]

Anyone here from AMC? Cuz I was told to call my booker (from Fox) to order a new reel, and my booker seems to be AWAY. And this is killing me.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 06-29-2006, 04:17 PM:

quote: Richard P. May
And in doing this, how much of the film are you eliminating? This could affect dialog, specific shots, etc.

There's, of course, a boundary of common sense there. If I have more than ten consecutive damaged frames on any length of film, I'd like to order a replacement. With a new release, it can be difficult to gague the relavance of the scene, let alone the dialouge, so my reaction is usually based on intuition.

I've always wanted to be able to reject reels based simply on the presence of lab splices, like the old Northpark. Even though it seems as if fewer and fewer theatres even know what the hell a lab splice is. Occasionally TES' QC prints would have managled sprocket holes, slight edge damage, or other damage any seasoned film operator could identify. The later situation is one where I'd always order a replacement reel. If the damage is pertinent to how the print will run through the machine, even if my doubt is only slight, I'd demand a clean reel.
But, as a manager, I've also been trained to get the theater ready to run in a timely fashion. This is the folly of lab printing damage. You've got the damage in your hands, you haven't run it through a machine. There's no way your theatre could be blamed for such damage. These are the times I've been trained to fix the small splotches, of soundtrack runoffs (which I've also seen SDDS backup data infiltrate image area), and run the print, judging how much was cut from the scene/dialouge after the first run. If the cut sound is really worth a replacement reel, it would be ordered that day, and if DHL or whoever is on their toes, replaced by the next day's first show at the latest. ETS might even be able to have it holding will-call that same day, if the first show is early enough.

I'd love to be technically perfect & always replace any sort of damage to any reel of any feature. But I'm growing up around the tastes of all the powers that be & such is how I've learned to integrate attentive booth management into the minds of all the bosses I've had. At least I kept their attention about lab splices. [Smile]

Posted by Diane Linton (Member # 3711) on 06-29-2006, 05:53 PM:

I built it today and others are previewing it tonight. Even if ours was defective, I don't think we'd get another one...we never do.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 06:33 PM:

My booker said i would receive a replacement reel sometime tomorrow (she didnt even give me a time) so we are preparing for the worst [Frown]

ill be in the building early incase I have to rush put the new reel on. But seriously, it took my booker 5 hours to get back to me!!

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 06-29-2006, 10:22 PM:

Donna, you may want to contact Bernie Anderson at your sister AMC in New Brunswick NJ. He's the booth manager there and can give you information on ordering reels and general company policy. Bernie posts on this site and will be only too glad to help you cut through the red tape.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-29-2006, 11:06 PM:

Well I finally got through to Lucy (our booker), but it took her a few hours to reply to my voicemail and emails to her. Though my manager should have been ordering that reel HOURS before I returned to work, she left that job for me *sigh* I just wish she would give me a small break since I am new to the management team, but anyways, yeah Im just getting used to AMC's way of running things.

Oh btw, thank you guys, I really would like to use these forums more often, I just have been a bit shy to ask questions on here, though film is my life!

Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 06-29-2006, 11:38 PM:

Technicolor seems to have a good QC system, I've only come across 2 prints that had defects, and 1 of them was minor. We called Technicolor, and informed them, they immediatly sent out a replacment for the defective reel. The one with the more major problem, we got later that day. The one with the minor problem wasn't in need of replacement, but we reported the defect, as per standard inspection duty, and they replaced it anyhow.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 06-30-2006, 10:00 PM:

R1 on our Devil was discolored intermittently. Turns piss yellow, it's grand!

Anybody else notice R5 get extremely grainy during some of the shots?
Or the visible editing splices in the opening scene?

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 06-30-2006, 10:02 PM:

Yeah what ever happened to your reel 1 happened to our reel 3, and we ordered a new reel, they said it would be in sometime today, and guess what.....

IM STILL WAITING!!

So we have been selling the show and telling guests of the defect but apparently no one cares cuz it sold out and still NO complaints! I mean it was a good movie, but wow... LOL

Didnt notice any grain though in any reels.

EDIT: The other OC in my building told me the REEL finally came in shortly after 12:30am tonight. And we can finally run a good run through of devil wears prada. Im so happy

[ 07-01-2006, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: Donna Siegwart ]