Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Phonic PAA3 Handheld Audio Analyzer

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Posted by Bhaskar Dhungana (Member # 1283) on 07-10-2006, 05:04 AM:

What do you think about this product? Can this be used to analyze cinema installations reasonably effectively?

Phonic PAA3 Handheld Audio Analyzer.

http://www.phonic.com/partner/modules/product_explor/products_detail.php?product_id=130

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-10-2006, 05:08 AM:

Not unless you can connect a microphone multiplexer.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-10-2006, 02:54 PM:

I have used one and I liked it. It's not very expensive at all and it's easy to use.

The thing has something like 32 memory slots. You can go around the room and take samples at several locations and store each one in a seperate memory slot.

It will integrate samples from several memory slots to give you an average reading of a room. So, even though it doen't have built-in multiplexing you can still get a pretty good idea of what the whole room sounds like.

(I do agree. A microphone multiplexer would be the best thing to use.)

Once you have sampled and integrated, the computer inside will give you a readout that shows how to tune each band on your EQ to make the room flat.

Finally, it has a "Phase Check" feature that puts out a square wave signal then allows you to listen to see if all your speakers are in phase. (This feature helped me to solve a problem in my theater's sound system.)

What I DIDN'T like about it was that you have to navigate all the features of the unit through a convoluted multi-layer menu system. All of those menus are accessed through a thumb wheel / click mechanism on the side. It's clunky to operate at best.

I also didn't like the built-in pink noise generator. It only puts out a signal at -10 dB. To low to use to test a theater sound system without cranking up the volume... That defeats all your level settings. You still need to have either the Pink Noise generator card for your style of sound processor or a seperate generator with variable output levels.

Overall, I'd give it a "B-".

It's got lots of features but some of them are hard to navigate through the menu system to activate. One critical feature is useless to cinema techs.

For the price, (Under $500 ??) it's well worth it for quick check-ups but for real, critical work there are other pieces of equipment you will need to do the job right.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-10-2006, 04:42 PM:

The question is, how accurate is the inbuilt mic? I am not saying because it is cheap, it can't be good. But I am a little suspicious.

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 07-10-2006, 10:25 PM:

I have the previous version of it, the PAA2 and I like it,have been using it for 2 years and it does the job for most of sound setups.
I use it remotely, connected to a laptop and the unit mounted on a tripod in the auditorium or on a foam riser on the auditorium's seating. the output level of pink noise is, as mentioned, low.Since at the time I started using it most of the work were done with old, obscure processors that didn't have any resource for test signal I made a small circuit to adjust the PN level for better use.
Didn't know a new version is out,might look for it.
For me it's a good device and will do the job for usual sound systems.
I didn't use it for a more serious setup ( Bi-amplified or digital systems) then I can't say anything about the PAA for such works.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-10-2006, 10:57 PM:

Have you worked with and compared it to other RTAs?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-10-2006, 11:32 PM:

quote: Michael Schaffer
The question is, how accurate is the inbuilt mic?

I have asked the same question but have found no real hard data one way or the other.

When I used it I was able to get my sound system working pretty well... as well as it ever has. (There are shortcomings I can do nothing about.)

Yes, you are right in asking if a piece of equipment that is so cheap is good enough quality but it's at least as good as it needs to be, considering the price.

Personally, I wouldn't use it in critical situations but if you want to have a piece of equipment in your bag of tricks for every day use then I'd say it's OK. It's small and light. It's easy to carry around and you don't have to hook up a bunch of wires just to use it.

So, for quick check-ups and first rounds of diagnosis where you want to be able to just walk into a theater and get a reading in a few minutes it good. If you're trying to solve a tough sound problem or if you want a super accurate readout it's probably best to pull out the "big guns".

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 07-15-2006, 01:31 AM:

Randy, Off topic, I'm curious about the short comings of your sound system.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-15-2006, 11:13 AM:

It's such a long story I dont' know where to start. The whole system was patched together over severaly years. Now, it's such a hodgepodge of things you can hardly figure it out.

It started out with a Smart MOD IIB and just two speakers on the floor of the stage in front of the screen. That sucked so they bought a couple JBL cinema speakers and put them on carts behind the screen. They they bought a third speaker but a different model for the center channel.

Part of the sound goes direct to the speakers. (Left & Right screen channels.)

Part of it goes through the Peavy Media Matrix, THEN out to the center speaker.

The surround channel is sent through the Media Matrix, mixed with some of the center channel then it goes through the under-balcony fill speakers.

There is a switch on the back of the Media Matrix that has to be flipped when you want to use the sound system in "Cinema" mode then returned to "Stage" mode when you're done. If you don't, the sound system won't work right.

I tell them over and over, until I'm blue in the face that this isn't right but they refuse to listen. "It'll cost too much money to fix.", they claim.

I have it working as well as it can, given the circumstances. But, every chance I get, I tell them it NEEDS to be fixed.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-15-2006, 12:50 PM:

Randy; as you probably know all too well...the requirements of a cinema system never seem to overlap that of a stage system. Usually two separate systems is best.

The one exception is an installation where the stage guy feeds effects into my left/rt surrounds which works great.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-15-2006, 06:07 PM:

My main complaint is that all three horns for the front/screen channels need to be in perfect phase or else they won't work right. Two of them go directly to the speakers. The center channel goes through the DSP.

I try to tell people that speaker phasing is critical and that the Media Matrix doesn't give a rat's ass about phase. (Unless you program it that way. I know it isn't.)

Everybody keeps complaining that the dialog coming from the screen is hard to hear and I keep telling them why. They always ask me what to do to fix it. But, when they find out how much it will cost they all seem to clap their hands over their ears and yell, "Laa! Laa! Laa!"

What I need is the word of an expert who will say exactly what needs to be done and how much it will cost.

We NEED to get a Dolby processor and a Dolby Digital setup too!
Picture wise, my theater is as good as any theater in town... Even better. But, sound wise, we suck so bad it's not funny!

I keep telling the boss if we could just slap a sign on the door saying "We now have Dolby Digital!" we'd easily get the reputation of being the best theater in town.