Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Troubles with Rear Window Captioning

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Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 07-12-2006, 06:50 PM:

Oddly enough, I have not experienced any problems with our RWC until our SuperMan print was scheduled to run in the selected theatre (WE ONLY HAVE ONE RWC BTW), and it will run half way through the print, and then the RWC will stop working. Im not really sure how to fix this problem (or even if this may be the DTS RWC Disk), anyone have any problems like such? And how did you handle them?

We want to get our RWC up ASAP due to a 'guest' who often comes to our theatre specifically to watch our movies in RWC. They were very understanding, and I would really like to keep their business.

Any feedback is welcome ^_^ Thanks

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-12-2006, 07:54 PM:

Does the display freeze up or go blank
I would try unpowering the display and see if it reboots and if that doesn't work then rebooting the DTS unit

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 07-13-2006, 12:51 AM:

The display stops completely. And rebooting and re installing the dts doesnt work either (We are kind of stuck here) any other ideas?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2006, 01:21 AM:

Can you be a bit more specific, Donna?

The reel number and minutes/seconds on the display stop updating? Do the menus work?

It sounds like your best bet is to call DTS. But try to give us a bit more detail about the problem.

Does it come back on its own for the beginning of the next show, or is rebooting necessary?

--jhawk

Posted by Mike B. Smith (Member # 2829) on 07-13-2006, 01:15 PM:

Greetings Donna,
Providing as much detail as possible will always aid in finding a solution to a problem. Other posts to your questions are all correct and helpful, but let me repeat and expand on a few items. Since some details are missing I’m going to assume you have a DTS-CSS system (not a XD10 with the CSS option). And without going deep into details and all possibilities let’s scratch the surface with some general questions and suggestions.
Did the previous show worked correctly? If so let’s look closer at the way Superman is working. With the RWC (Rear Window Caption) system and the CSS system on, no film running, this message should appear on the data wall inside the theatre “Welcome to Rear Window Please adjust your reflectors” it will be displayed in reverse which is normal. If this message is present, great, it means the CSS and Data wall is basically working, so let’s move on and look for the problem elsewhere. The CSS has some small LEDs on the front to indicate operational status. Prior to starting the film the green System LED should be blinking, this should continue to blink even when the show is running, if at anytime this light stays on solid you have a problem. When the show starts the Timecode light should illuminate and when valid CSS information is received the AUX light should come on, this is your information to the RWC system. You may also notice the audio light comes on, this indicates a narration track has been included with the show. In addition to the LED’s the screen should display the show it is playing, in this case “Superman”. Other information on the display will be reel number and play time. You reported the RWC stops working during the show, rebooting can correct some problems the system may be having but if this problem happens every show around the same place the issue lays elsewhere. Make these observations, when it stops working has the AUX light gone out? Did the display change on the CSS? What is the Timecode light doing? (is it on steady or is it blinking?). If your system was working fine prior to Superman the problem may be a print issue regarding time code, it may show up only in certain reels not the whole show, but can affect the reading of the Timecode by the DTS reader head. The Access disc you’re received could have a problem, to eliminate the disc call DTS and ask them for a replacement, normally any feature discs must be ordered from the film distributor but Access discs come direct from DTS. Requesting a replacement Access disc from DTS should not be a problem however if you have difficulties getting the disc contact me direct with your mailing address and I’ll get one to you. There are many other checks that can be done but first looking at where this problem occurs and what the system is doing would be most helpful in narrowing the problem down to a solution.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 07-13-2006, 04:33 PM:

Ok now with all the new information you all gave me; Im starting to think its the disk or the print. Heres some info that I didnt provide earlier (very sorry btw, im not in the building all the time, but all management is lost and our guy that fixes our projectors is of no help right now)

We have a DTS-CSS Cinema Subtitling System

According to an employee, it went out during the 4th reel, it does go back on later in the film but I have yet to receive that information on WHEN it does go back on (this is all being provided by guests and employees that do not know anything about projection)

The only light that is on and BLINKING is the SYSTEM light, all the others are off, and rebooting does nothing to help this, even reloading the disk doesnt help.

The RWC LCD in the back of the theatre doesnt READ anything, not even welcome to RWC... [Frown]

This is starting to sound like it may be the print.... like someone mentioned to me....

Any other advice is welcome, I hope I provided the correct information for your help. Ill be calling DTS about a disk to see if that works and Ill keep an eye on movie to see when the subtitling comes back on. (ok back to work, sorry this is short, we are busy for pirates) Thank you all.

BTW, we did have our booth maintenance guy come in and work on the RWC, but he said it was "fixed" , apparently he was wrong about it. But I just got notice that half way through reel 4 the subs come back on.... [Confused]

edit: also i realized I failed to mention we have never had this issue until we started playing superman in that theatre.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2006, 04:53 PM:

If it goes away and comes back over the course of a single feature, then it is extremely likely to be the print. (It is possible for you to have a bad disc, I guess, but I think that is very unlikely, oweing to the technology). It's also possible for your timecode reader to be slightly out of alignment, such that it works most of the time, but fails when it gets a marginal reel.

If convenient, visual inspection of the print during a reel where it has stopped working will let you see if there is a gross error, like the lab failed to print DTS timecode at all.

It's not surprising the reloading the disc doesn't help, since the unit simply copies the disc to the hard drive, and that step is very unlikely to generate errors. Similarly, rebooting the unit should only help if the unit has a bug or programming error, which is (hopefully) less likely than a random lab error. Such a bug would likely have been seen by others as well.

Another question: How long have you had this system installed? Over long periods of time (years), the LED in the timecode reader can fail...

Best of luck!

--jhawk

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 07-13-2006, 06:27 PM:

Hello again, to answer your question, we have had this DTS-CSS system installed for a little over a year. I remember getting it about 1 year and 3 months ago. (THATS AN ESTIMENT)

We also checked alignment, and different projectionists and managers have threaded it and kept an eye on it (my gut says its the print).

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-13-2006, 08:19 PM:

Is the audio being reproduced by a DTS 6d or 6 as well if so does it stop and revert to analog at the same time

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 07-17-2006, 02:01 PM:

Update: The RWC officially stopped working, we are calling in our outside tech. Hopefully its something that can be fixed. But my GM finally caved and called our tech to find out why its on the fritz.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 07-17-2006, 03:01 PM:

Rear Window Captioning sucks, at least the only implementation of it that I have had the misfortune to see. At the AMC Clifton Commons (NJ), some of the auditoriums are equiped with this. It may have seemed like a good idea on the drawing boards, but the display on the rear wall is so bright that it causes a flickering on the screen during dark scenes. I dislike the system so much that I have not been to this theatre in years, although it is an otherwise nice facility.

Posted by Donna Siegwart (Member # 3232) on 07-17-2006, 03:17 PM:

See I didnt mind the system, ours worked GREAT until this past month when it started cutting out reel by reel, and now it wont even read anything, my GM tried everything he could before calling his tech in. I feel so bad for telling the guests it isnt working right now, but I did get to brush up on my sign language. Our guests were understanding, and passes were distributed for the inconvenience.