This is topic TAIL UP Reels in Second Run Theatre in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Armin E Pohl (Member # 3551) on 07-13-2006, 06:42 AM:
 
sometimes... just sometimes... I get a nice delivery of 2 cans of reels that are ALL Tail Up. Is this something I should complain about to the depot or studio to find out who played the print last and blast them for not 'rewinding' the reels to HEAD UP.

any thoughts on this subject ?!?!?!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-13-2006, 06:51 AM:
 
Yeah, stop whining and just rewind them. Seriously, the film can come in with any orientation of reels and it shouldn't matter. A reel to reel house will most likely take up on the shipping reels and yield a tails up. Back in the days of having paper bands to hold down the ends of the film, they actually stated to "Do Not Rewind"

I prefer tails up when I get a film for either platter or reel-to-reel...It allows for proper prep, with inspection...for the platter, I'm going to inspect and load onto 6K reels then to the MUT...so tails up helps.
 

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Posted by Marc Jensen (Member # 3561) on 07-13-2006, 07:16 AM:
 
There's nothing to complain about. Some projectionists have print build up routines that have them preferring to see a tail when reels come out of the can/box, and other prefer the opposite.

The only thing worth complaining about is when they turn up, random heads or tails, sometimes with the emulsion or base side also randomly in or out from one reel to the next. Or worse. And even then it's better to just get on with the job and be happy that the IQ level of these numbskulls helps keep you clearly in the top half of the human race.

Once you start getting frustrated with it, you just wind up furrowing your brow for so long you give yourself a headache anyway.



Out of interest's sake has anyone ever done a poll on which way around projectionists like their films wound when a shipment arrives?
 

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Posted by Armin E Pohl (Member # 3551) on 07-13-2006, 07:40 AM:
 
I usually fit 3 reels on a 6K reel and take a peek at the print while I wind on. I then MUT it. I guess I'll keep doing the do.

thanks for the replies...
 

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Posted by Alex Grueneberg (Member # 2652) on 07-13-2006, 08:06 AM:
 
Steve and gang, is building the prints onto 6k reels and from there to the MUT a standard way to build? I've never heard of that before, but it sounds excellent. Especially because ETS likes to always send me tail up movies.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-13-2006, 08:55 AM:
 
Remember "if a print is inspected" it will almost always be tail out if it has been received from a theatre first. Louis
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-13-2006, 09:35 AM:
 
With new prints, winding orientation will depend on the type of printers used by the lab (unidirectional "loop" printers vs. bi-directional panel printers), and whether any of the reels were chosen for inspection by projection.

As Steve notes, projectionists using 2000-foot reels with changeovers often wound the film directly onto the shipping reels, so they would be tails-out. For platters or large reels, break-down procedures vary with the theatre's operation.

Prints are normally NOT inspected or rewound by the film exchange between bookings, as distributors normally do not pay for that extra service.
 

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Posted by Markus Lemm (Member # 3456) on 07-13-2006, 10:44 AM:
 
I always return my prints tails up, and prefer to get reels tails up. Since we run 2000-foot reels, for make up I check the tail splice and check if the cue needs to be marked then rewind onto a house reel, check the head splice and Bob's your uncle. If the film comes heads up its an extra rewind for each reel.
For break down I just use a shipping reel as the pickup reel and the film is ready for shipping right when the film finishes.

Hey Armin I noticed you are in Burlington, its possible that you got one of my prints with all the reels tails up. What film was it?
 

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Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 07-13-2006, 11:09 AM:
 
I run a changeover booth and I prefer getting them tails out, otherwise I have to run it through my fingers to inspect it (sub-run, no telling what the last guy did to the print) and then rewind it again, so tails out saves me a few steps. I do ship heads out, as I build and run on 6000s (only 2 reels on the big reels because of the weight and the 5/16" shafts)

If I was running a booth with only 2000' magazines, I would ship tails out, letting the shipping reel be the takeup, like we did in the old days.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-13-2006, 01:28 PM:
 
Yea..I remember when prints ALWAYS were shipped tails out from Nat'l Film (and this was the only depot back then..) to the theatres - so we could hand wind them onto our house reels while doing hand inspections at the same time.

Also, with film coming in tails out, there is one BIG advantage - you can cue your last reel on the bench as you're rewinding it.

Welcome to the world of the projection booth - you DO have to work sometime.

-Monte
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 07-13-2006, 03:58 PM:
 
I prefer tails out too since I run changeovers. Too bad 99% of films don't come that way.
 

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Posted by Ian Woloschin (Member # 3709) on 07-13-2006, 10:38 PM:
 
I'm with the rest of the guys running changeovers, send us more tails up!

My house reels are 40 minutes max (am I a bad projectionist if I don't know how many feet of film that is?), shipping reels come in on 20 minutes max reels. So obviously, we put two shipping reels on one house reel, but if it comes heads up I have to rewind the house reel after it's set, otherwise I'm showing the movie tails up!

Send movies tails up, save the little guys' time!

(It does add a bit of extra thinking to the process, but the extra thinking still takes less time than rewinding all of the film)
 

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Posted by Tim Sherman (Member # 569) on 07-16-2006, 03:14 AM:
 
I run platters at my theater and i also prefer the prints to come in tails up. Build up on to 6k reels and then too the platter. No need to rewind again from 6k to 6k.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-16-2006, 04:06 AM:
 
You guys are all a bunch of whiners! Heads up means that platter houses can inspect and build straight onto a Goldberg platter reel and voila, the print is ready to run.
 

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Posted by Robert Burtcher (Member # 3227) on 07-16-2006, 04:24 AM:
 
But Brad, not all of us are lucky enough to work for a company that will buy us cool stuff like the Goldberg Platter Reel.
 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 07-16-2006, 04:28 AM:
 
I run platters, always have, but really I don't care. Heads out, tails out, it's all the same. Heads out, I run it straight to the platter, checking as I go. Tails out, I build it in reverse (6,5,4 and 3,2,1) on 2 6k reels, checking as I go. It's a hair faster that way because reel to reel is faster than reel to platter. And once I'm on the 6k reels, going to platter is fast because I don't have to anticipate the end of the reel to cut and splice, and since I already did all but the splice in the middle, it's a straight shot. Out MUT has nice pretty new rollers with easy spinning metal bearings, so I can go warp 5 Mr. Sulu. I may prefer Haeds out by a small margin, but it really doesn't matter to me as long as the orientation is consistant (H,H,H,etc. Or T,T,T, etc. I'll even take any mix of that as long as the Tails are together so I can splice them on one 6k'er)

When we return them, I always wind them Heads out. I didn't consider a changeover setup till recently, and until I read the forums, didn't know they prefer Tails out. But by now, it's already second nature to make them Heads out, and considering I don't know if it'll go to a platter house or changeover, I have no way of helping them out by orienting it their preferred way. At either rate, the reels all leave my house, if I do them, all oriented the same way, heads out.

BTW, has anyone ever noticed sometimes when you get a reel tails out from the lab, more often than not, the head is longer than normal, and there's alot of wasted, clear film in the middle (between the header markings before the first fame and the outter bit of head markings)?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-16-2006, 04:31 AM:
 
WTF is Daryl and his magical machine????
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-16-2006, 12:04 PM:
 

quote: magic.exe?task=summarize&posts=all

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WAH!

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-16-2006, 01:07 PM:
 
We wind (and inspect) at the bench on large reels, then rewind and load the platter.

I don't have Goldberg Platter Reels (that might be fun), but who cares?... one more step.

In any case, I can't see how this will ever change. The studios send out new prints in every configuration you could imagine, including (lately) mixing them up in the cans. Most theatres around here break their prints down on their makeup tables, so heads-up is how they leave the booth.

Personally... I liked the Warner Bros plastic 6k reels!
 

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Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 07-16-2006, 01:43 PM:
 
I personally like to build up movies onto 6k reels so I can personally inspect each 2k reel. Most of the time, I've been getting prints all heads up, but, occassionally, with tails up. After building up onto 6k reels, I rewind them to be heads up and load on to the platter. Of course, this was how I was trained in print building. When breaking down prints, I break them down with heads up, since I don't know if the prints are going to another theatre with either a Changeover system or platter system.
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 07-16-2006, 02:09 PM:
 
I could care less how the print arrives, as long as it is not unwound allover the can or box.

This topic is even worse than some of the ones I have started!
 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-16-2006, 06:53 PM:
 

quote: Gary Crawford

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I do ship heads out, as I build and run on 6000s (only 2 reels on the big reels because of the weight and the 5/16" shafts)

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quote: Bruce McGee

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as long as it is not unwound allover the can or box.

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..yea...nothing more aggrevating than opening a can being full of plastic "spaghetti."
 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 07-16-2006, 11:10 PM:
 
Been there a few times. Thanks ETS.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-18-2006, 01:54 AM:
 

quote: John Wilson

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You should be able to load up those 6k's with as much film as they'll take and have no problems with the 5/16" shafts...so long as when you put them on everyone's gentle and doesn't SLAM them onto the shaft they should run forever.

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quote: David Ingalsbe

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... although after reading this i thimk i must have pissed of my lab or something since all my prints come every other reel heads tails.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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I've gotten a few new prints where just one reel is out of whack...like 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 will be heads up where 3 is tails up. Why does this happen?

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