Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: No intermittent oil

This is topic No intermittent oil in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008160

Posted by Diane Linton (Member # 3711) on 07-22-2006, 12:46 AM:

We just ran out today. I put it on the supply list two weeks ago and home office sent 1 of the 4 things I requested, plus 1 that I didn't request, but no oil. I told my manager but she picked up motor oil. (Yeah, like for the car 5w-30)

We have a couple of leaky projectors (Victoria5's) that need oiled everyday. I have to work tomorrow and am nervous as hell about the intermittents freezeing. Is there anything that could suffice, or a place I can pick some up?

Any help appriciated. Thanks.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-22-2006, 01:54 AM:

5W-30 would do in a pinch..since gotta have something in there to lubricate things until you get the right stuff..sounds like a rebuild is needed on those Vic5's to put new gasket kits in..

..but too bad you couldn't trade that 5w-30 in for 20w non detergent, since the other stuff foams up pretty good..and foaming isn't the best for projectors..or, even some synthetic oil like Mobil 1 ..

...I've even seen tranny fluid being used for lubrication.

-Monte

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 07-22-2006, 02:24 AM:

I know we're not having a state the obvious contest here but it sounds like your office needs to keep you in better supply.
I would keep at least a case on hand with those leakers.

Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 07-22-2006, 03:12 AM:

We weren't. And, while true, stating the obvious doesn't help Diane any. On that note, I wish I could provide a suggestion, but Monte already stated pretty much what would be my best guess, and then some. Might wanna check back later though, because I'm sure some of the other guys will put in their 2 pennies, which may help.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-22-2006, 06:58 AM:

Echoing what Monte said, the oil seal between the back of the cross box and the chassis might have failed and want replacing. If oil is leaking, it's probably either escaping from there or the seal between the filler pipe and the top of the box (which I guess will either be a Jubliee clip or a cable tie). The intermittent unit on a Vic 5 is pretty simple to swap out (even I can do it, and I'm not the most mechanically minded person in the world!), and if oil's been spraying around in there it would give you the chance to thoroughly clean the drive train, too, thereby preventing the possibility of any belt slipping problems.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-22-2006, 08:34 AM:

Usually the failure of the oil seal on the vic 5 movement is from haveing overfilled in the first place for a long time or far to light weight of oil
The seal is easy to replace but does require some special tools
The motor oil will most likely have issues with the movement and in a pinch I would get some SAE30 non detergent from a garage that deals in deisel engines the cinemecanica line doesn't have issues with a slightly heavy oil as a rule

Posted by Diane Linton (Member # 3711) on 07-22-2006, 08:49 AM:

Thank you all.

This is my first projection job so I'm not sure what we don't have that we need, but by comeing here and reading, we don't seam to have alot.

They aren't overfilled anymore, and I think most the leaks may be comeing from where the fill tubes connect. I was wanting to try to fix those when we got more tubes, but no one has picked any up yet. And the last tube that broke off I couldn't seam to get on right. Gaskets may need to be changed also, it's probably been awhile if I know my company.

I'm just worried this pinch will last a little to long. [Frown]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-22-2006, 09:10 AM:

If your home office is always this slow, it may be worth it to double order on purpose. Hide one bottle....yes I am in favor of hoarding since the alternate is too horrible: shutting down or ruining a good piece of equipment. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-22-2006, 11:24 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Hide one bottle....yes I am in favor of hoarding since the alternate is too horrible

Getting some generic oil is not a bad idea but this person has done her job by ordering the correct supplies. Perhaps its time to let home office learn the hard way that when an order comes in it all has to go out. Beyond letting the theaters manager know about the situation I think letting hime office learn the hard way might be the appropriate thing to do. I guarantee you that after replacing the movement they will definately get oil the next time it is ordered. Anopther option is to just shut down that machine till oil arrives. That'll also get their attention very fast.

P.S. you don't need to visit a Diesel shop to buy SAE 30 weight oil... any auto parts store or lawn mower shop will carry the stuff.

Mark

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 07-22-2006, 11:33 AM:

Most of the failures I had with Cinemeccanica V-5 was lack of or very light oil in the intermittent from cheap owners or unattentive staff....I have seen the other side; there are three V-5 I installed 28 years ago, with the exception of sprocket replacement, are still purring along [Smile]

A proper rebuild of the movement would buy you a few drums of oil [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-22-2006, 12:01 PM:

It is odd to have it leak around the filler tube which connects to the bottom of the movement
If it is snug in the movement and the hose is properly clamped then It is unusal for it to leak
More often it is leaking on the non operating side bushing on the cam shaft behind the drive pulley

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-22-2006, 01:49 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
and if oil's been spraying around in there it would give you the chance to thoroughly clean the drive train, too, thereby preventing the possibility of any belt slipping problems.

...or belt breakdown since there are two of those toothed belts back there...and the one driving the assembly gets the most beating. I bet that both belts are saturated with oil if such a bad leakage was present back there.

Definitely get that assembly rebuilt, wipe out the backside completely, and do a belt change.

True, Vic5 assemblies are easy to change out-in a way it's kinda cheating being so simple.

...not any fun when you see an assembly shatter all to pieces inside with the oil runs out - think your company would appreciate such added expenses due to lack of proper maintenance and attention ... on their part?
-Monte

Posted by Tommie Evans (Member # 2674) on 07-25-2006, 12:23 PM:

Can you use Vic 5 oil on a Vic 8? And has anyone ever made/cut their own rear mech cover gasket for the Vic 8?

Posted by William Phillips (Member # 1162) on 07-25-2006, 01:07 PM:

A ceral box does the job very well, 1 of my sites VIC9 has had one for a few years now. Its not leaking so its staying like that [Smile]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-26-2006, 09:09 PM:

Currently they all use the same oil
at one point cinemecanica was supplying a transmission oil for there machines

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-29-2006, 07:34 AM:

I am with Mark on this one. If you continually cover for idiots in the home office, nothing will change -- why should it? As far as they are concerned, you put in a request for oil, you told them how important it is to have a supply, but they didn't send you what you said you in dire need of, and nothing bad happened. They will conclude from that that there is no real emergency when a projectionist says he's got and emergency and asks for supplies. They will see no urgency the next time you say you need essential supplies.

I say, ask for the oil. Explain that without it a very expensive part of the projector can be ruined and many shows in that theatre may have to be canceled as a result. Then let it go; do without the oil if it is not forthcoming. Believe me, I hate to see equipment get damaged, especially when it is avoidable, but over the years I have learned that I shouldn't let my dedication to my craft be used as an excuse for incompetent and lazy people to sit on their asses and not do their jobs because they know I will "deal with it."

Just be sure you document everything -- put your requests in writing and copy more than just one person. Be sure to explain that this is an serious emergency and detail what will happen to the equipment if the issue is not dealt with promptly. Based on the amount of oil that might be left, predicate how long before projector intermittents will begin to fail. Again, make sure you put it all in writing; as incompetent and as lazy these bozos can be, you would be amazed how quickly they can spring into action when they need to save their asses and how ingenius they will become in order to point the blame onto someone else, most likely you. And outright lieing is not beyond them, which is why you need to be sure more than one person gets your request and warning.

It's an unfortunate lesson I've had to learn the hard way over the years, but damn it's effective.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-29-2006, 12:53 PM:

You are encouraging the "Scott Tissue Theory" CYA with paper! Louis

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-31-2006, 10:14 AM:

If the purchasing department does not provide needed maintenance supplies when requested, be sure your circuit's engineering/projection/operations department is aware of the need, and the delay in getting vital supplies like the proper oil.

Get the support of your local management team too, as their neck is on the line if you have a dark screen due to equipment failure.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-01-2006, 05:13 PM:

quote: Diane Linton
I think most the leaks may be comeing from where the fill tubes connect

A new jubilee clip from a local hardware store (they cost pennies in this part of the world) should do the trick, after a thorough clean of the top of the casting to ensure a good contact.

My experience with Vic 5s was that you needed to replace them every couple of years or so to ensure a liquid tight seal.

As for the oil, isn't is sad that the senior management of a large chain can't put a system in place to ensure that basic, nuts-and-bolts supplies like projector oil reach the people who need them efficiently? I mean, how much does a bottle of projector oil cost compared to the customer refunds for just one lost evening show?