Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong Highlight II Ignitor Problem

This is topic Strong Highlight II Ignitor Problem in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 08-30-2006, 09:05 PM:

Recently, about 1 1/2 weeks ago, I had an unusual problem that I encountered. Just as I was about to start my first show of Step Up in theatre #10, the Ignitor was trying to Ignite the Xenon Bulb. It must have happened at least 10 or more times with 15 to 30 seconds between each ignite sequence. I switched on the Bulb Ignitor switch from auto to manual. After waiting for quite sometime, I tried the Manual Ignition in the CNA-100 Automation Panel 3 times. The third time, the Xenon Bulb remained on. The movie started at least 5 minutes late due to this problem. Each subsequent show started without any problems. Then, for a few days or more, the problem didn't happen until it did the same thing. At first, I thought it was the Xenon Bulb, but, it wasn't that since it is a new bulb. Since that time, I haven't had a problem, but, I am concerned that it may happen again.

I have the same Strong Highlight II Console & CNA-100 Automation in theatre #1 and never had a problem there. Any suggestions or insight as to why this happened and how I can have it fixed? Of course, I did my basic troubleshooting and everything is working properly.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-30-2006, 09:14 PM:

AC igniter (black) or DC (white)?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-30-2006, 09:18 PM:

Check your no-load DC voltage from the rectifier, or you could have a slight reduction in AC inline current to the rectifier causing lower no-load DC voltage to not have enough hit from the igniter. Also, being AC igniters, the voltage drop in the line could be not allowing the caps inside to charge completely before discharge on the first showing of the day - which means you prob got some high drawing units to slightly reduce the incoming voltage to drop a bit since it doesn't take much to make igniters rather cranky.

Electricity is amazing stuff, but unpreditable as well..

Oh, and since you mention that it's a new bulb, try another one for stinks and giggles, for there are no two bulbs alike...you could have a bulb installed that has an attitude like a girlfriend with a mind of her own.

good luck-Monte

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 08-30-2006, 11:08 PM:

Thank you for the information, Monte. I'll check into it using the suggestions you mentioned. I agree with you about the Xenon Bulbs and Electricity.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-30-2006, 11:56 PM:

Yea, Michael's referring to what STRONG uses - Black cased igniters were DC ones (in which I use with these old X-90 consoles that I work with) and the White cased igniters that uses AC current that are the norm for the newer STRONG consoles.

I do have one X-90 that has the newer AC igniter, and I basically have the same problems with it as well, but mine only flares up with the bulb gets some hours on it.

It takes a good dozen pulses before the bulb finally ignites when that bulb has the hours. New bulbs, ignition on the first pulse.

No-load voltage pegs in the 120 to 150 range before ignition.

I've traded igniters around to see if that one igniter is the culprit, but the problem stays there in that one certain console.

Just one of those things that I have to deal with at times..

-Monte

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-31-2006, 08:23 AM:

DC=White or grey box.... AC=black box

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-31-2006, 03:35 PM:

whoops..got them turned around...thx for the correction..

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-31-2006, 05:46 PM:

Monte, Monte... you doubted me?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-01-2006, 01:45 AM:

No...just can't read somethimes.. sorry on that.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 09-04-2006, 08:11 PM:

I talked with my technician this morning about the two Strong Highlight II Consoles and he gave me a little history. When those consoles were installed, the company used 7k Xenon Bulbs at the time and we are now using 4,200-Watt Xenon Bulbs using the same Ignitor's, etc., that were used for the 7k Xenon Bulbs. To change out the Ignitors and such, would cost the company $5,000. Anyway, figured I would add this in.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-04-2006, 08:30 PM:

That doesn't sound like anything that would cause your exact type of problem.
Why do you ask for tips and then when we ask exactly which type of igniter are you talking about you don't give us that information? You can't expect to get any more specific tips then.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-04-2006, 08:57 PM:

quote: Chad M Calpito
To change out the Ignitors and such, would cost the company $5,000. Anyway, figured I would add this in.

And someone gave you a quote from bull crap land too! Its not near that expensive....

Mark

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-04-2006, 09:49 PM:

I would think the only difference would be simply that the start voltage sensing circuit would need to be adjusted or changed (probably just a different zener, if that's what does the trick here in these igniters, I can't remember right now) and the other main difference would be that the 7k igniter is laid out more generously electrically to handle higher currents once the lamp is lit. I don't think the voltage which supports the ignition spark pulse would need to be adjusted significantly if at all.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-04-2006, 10:24 PM:

kinda interesting that the IGA15M igniters from CHRISTIE can ignite bulbs from 4k up to 7k. For lesser sized bulbs, then you crawl down to the IGA10M units.

Plus, wouldn't just one 25kv discharge ignite the majority of the bulbs no matter what size they are? I thought it was more related to the recommended recitifer output per bulb size.

Yea, some tech is trying to make a few extra bucks on the side to place in his pocket from that one cinema circuit - seen that happened before...

-Monte

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-04-2006, 11:35 PM:

Well, we don't know that. We don't know if he is an outside service provider who would benefit from the modification, or if he works for the chain. Let's not make such accusations too rashly. It could also be that that is an explanation he gave simply because he couldn't find the real reason. I am sure you have seen that many times. Or maybe he is right and we here overlooked some details.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-05-2006, 01:38 PM:

Fully agree.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-05-2006, 07:28 PM:

Assuming that the hi-voltage in fact actually jumps the bulb; the next thought is the trigger voltage for the no load voltage to pull in the relay (does it work better manually?)may be set too low.

If that is in order; then the condition of the capacitors must be sufficient to keep the inrush current high enough to sustain the initial arc. The DC will then replace the inrush current.

If any part of this sequence is not there, ignition will fail. Louis