quote:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMQ3C-5kO_A

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That is somethink i would never do when the film is running

I was just serching at youtube.com and i found this.
 

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Posted by Ben Stephenson (Member # 741) on 09-03-2006, 06:11 AM:
 
Sometimes needs must, can i say they look very profesional and seam to know what they are doing, the operation looks very smooth and with enough practis over the years this is very easy to do, Working in such an invoroment where you don't have the option to get things wrong you don't!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-03-2006, 08:20 AM:
 
The things that I think I've started...

When I've needed the trailer pack for the incoming feature and on the last show of the outgoing feature...I've done that verything...without the 2nd guy. Someone once saw me do it and didn't catch the part about keeping everything off the floor during the procedure. He didn't care...after all the film is leaving.

If the film is staying, I will often do my trailer swaps on the 2nd to the last show of the day (it depends on the theatre configuration and the time available). I will often isolate the film to be pulled with sponge rubber or cores...wait an hour to get three reels on the take up platter(s)....then go throughout the complex and pull the trailer packs (with three reels, there is enough friction the film won't slide about). Service the trailer packs....then distribute them back to their respective theatres....as the movies drop...it is just one splice away from threading back up. It scares most people the first time they see a center-less film on take up.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-03-2006, 08:53 AM:
 
Well let's see. First off, that video did not need to be that freakin' long when it shoudl've been 30 seconds maximum. But putting aside the "artistic vision" of the "film"maker...

This has been done, and like Steve said, I've done this myself witout assistance. (The trick is to be taking up onto the bottom deck, then switch to the top deck for platter models such as this.) Indeed the trick is to keep the film off of the floor, not scratch up the end of the last trailer AND put forth extreme care when threading the beginning of the feature through the rollers, as it is very easy to scratch that up as well. It's overall bad practice.

If you look closely at the video, you will see that the last 20 feet or so of the trailers gets ripped through without any assistance, thus scratching it up quite nicely. Then for good measure, the trailer pack is put on the floor. In looking at the head of the feature, it appears it was permitted to slip around the center ring, further laying scratches on it for the first few feet.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 09-03-2006, 01:15 PM:
 
I worked with a guy who insisted that breaking a splice halfway through an outgoing print, still running, was the only way he'd get out of the building at a decent hour on breakdown nights...

Without breaking too much of a sweat, I could run the print, break it AND an average of five others down the correct way & still leave at the same time he did. But did this convince him?

 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-03-2006, 04:24 PM:
 
I once had a customer who disabled the failsafe switch, then ran the trailers onto a house reel using the lower take up, then was able to put reel one of the feature onto its proper header, which had been prethreaded onto the proper shipping reel during the last showing..

Using a piece of cardboard, nothing touched the floor and (knowing the person involved) the splice was good & in frame. Continuing then, he could almost beat the audience to the street on ship out night.

You may wonder: "Why?" Because of the frugality of the theatre owner, this was similar to ANY ship out/in. The theatre did not own a rewind bench or make up table! Louis
 

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Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 09-03-2006, 04:44 PM:
 
After seeing the video, I was amazed. I know that is something I personally wouldn't attempt to do since I'm not even trained in doing something like that. Besides, I never even knew that had ever been done before.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-03-2006, 08:15 PM:
 
Oh...I've done the break down on the lower reel arm thing too...they just HAD to hvae it right after the show...so I said Okay

Steve
 

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Posted by Nick Scott (Member # 2850) on 09-03-2006, 09:11 PM:
 
Ive done this before, i think its easier on a Kinoton ST 200 theres alot less rollers on them and its easier to keep the film of the floor. It is easier with just the one person two people would just get in the way of each other.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-04-2006, 03:13 AM:
 

quote: Chad M Calpito

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I know that is something I personally wouldn't attempt to do since I'm not even trained in doing something like that.

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LOL...neither was I. I just figured it out just by analysing the situation and just DID IT!

Yea, I've done it all as well. Swapping out the ringset during a run by starting the show manually then doing the swap - but I did this all by myself-no help needed. Then after the swap, hitting the "start" button then turning off the manual switches.

My fun thing (and with VIC -5's where the stock CINE upper and lower arms are being used) was having a setup that where you can use the 6k reels (or even the smaller 2k's) with the guidance rollers below the spindles that can be easily swung away. Thus, I'd mark the film on the platter where it would fill a 6k reel, turn on the manual switches, then when my mark would come around, bust the splice, pull that reel off, put one back on its place (it's great to use slip reels in doing this), do the slip wind on the hub, hit the "run" button so the automation can take over and continue with the rest without stopping. This allowed me to bust down the first three reels while waiting for the other half.

And, if I was really wanting to get done, then I used the 2k reels with this same procedure.

Fun things that you can learn on your own in a booth.
 

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Posted by Owen Shave (Member # 1156) on 09-04-2006, 08:50 AM:
 
I guess I'll put my hands up right now and reveal myself as the 'fat boy on a diet' in the video..
First off, thanks to all of you who have praised our video, but I'd like to clear a few things up about it.
The video wasn't actually made as a demo on how this should be done, as such the '101' title is definitely misleading, and for that I apologise... See Mr. Miller's post for the various ways that we could've messed up the film and also tips on how to do it better.
We didn't actually decide to do it till after the film had started (and was running to the top platter), hence Brad's suggestion on running to the bottom platter wouldn't have worked for us this time. We probably wouldn't have done it by choice, but on this occasion we really needed that header *now*. I have covered at a cinema in Ireland where this was the standard practice for advert removal on a Thursday night from films leaving the cinema.
Also we didn't decide to record it until after we knew we were going to do it.. this wasn't film surgery for film surgery's sake, and was only done in one take (no outtakes to come in future videos!). We've been playing around with shooting videos on our mobile phones so we set them up on two different angles then did what we had to do. Of course once the cameras are there you want to put on a bit of a show.. hence the handshake at the end.
The video was cut together for a laugh and not as an instructional tool, so I cut it to the song I wanted and strung it out so it fits the length of the track... I'm not a skilled editor, film maker etc.. twas all for the fun, and a high quality end product wasn't high on our agenda.
For a high quality DIY film production, I heartily recommend Joe Redifer's Booth Training Seminar which is hilarious for anyone who works in a booth and I believe it is still available in the Videos section of this website.
SO, to sum up... keep the film off the floor (in the heat of the moment I really dropped the ball by putting the ring on the floor! - although our floors are of course cleaner than the hermetically sealed rooms at Intel ). If you are doing this on a Vic 5, you need to keep tension one of the arms on the platter, and either switch off the film break roller or keep enough tension on the film coming out of the projector (else you'll get an alarm and the proj will shut down) (turning off a film break roller seems like a great idea until you hear stories of the projectionist who comes back to find an entire feature spooled onto the floor beneath the projector). As for the feature slipping on the ring, I throw all the blame on my colleague.. there was masking tape there and ready.. but hey we all make mistakes.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-04-2006, 01:03 PM:
 
Here's my story on this type of thing:

Back in the early nineties I discovered why people would have to change out ads or previews while a show is running. I was a the lead projectionist at an 8 plex in Ft. Myers, Florida. One Friday afternoon, my manager called up on the radio and asked if a particular trailer was on a film. I had just started the very film he was asking about and realized that that trailer WAS NOT on the film. I then called on the radio and asked why anyone was wondering. The GM replied that a trailer checker representing the film company was in the building. I freaked. I then remembered the DM had been saying earlier in the week that being able to change trailers while a movie was running was a true test of how good a projectionist really was (I thought he was nuts!). I then put myself to the test and grabbed the trailer and splicer. Without stopping the film I actually put on the trailer while the film was running and it ran through without a hitch. When I was finished I turned around and my GM was standing there. He laughed and said "that was amazing". He then told me that the trailer checker had left after he told her that the trailer wasn't on the film.

Lesson learned: Read the report that the company put out every Thursday telling us what trailers to put on the new films.
 

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 09-04-2006, 03:05 PM:
 
OK, so it CAN be done, but I don't really understand WHY this would have to be done? First of all, we have plenty of trailers on hand, usually doubles and triples (I thought most people did), but secondly, if you know you'll need a specific trailer, why couldnt you remove it before the film starts? Why couldnt you remove all of them before the film starts? People coming into a 9pm show on a thrusday night as a movie is leaving arent really showing up to see the coming attractions. I've actually pulled everything off a film before the last show was shown if I knew I'd need something off of it. I've never even tried to remove them while a film is running, and never will. I just don't see the need. Its a nice trick to show the ladies, but shouldnt ever be considered SOP.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-04-2006, 03:36 PM:
 
That is fine if it is company policy that no previews/ads need to run on the last performance for a title.

I would say it was a rare bird that I pulled the trailer pack on the last show...it was much more common for me to pull the trailers I needed prior to the last show. Depending on what trailers are in inventory and what the company wanted on which feature...one has to do what they can do.

Many people do just run the last show sans-previews/ads...I never did. Of course, running reel-to-reel, this procedure takes on a completely different look and is much less rushed

I can not claim to have put a preview on a film while the trailers were running through though. I've added them with 5 minutes notice prior to the show start (double-decking) but not once the show begins.

For the life of me...I never understood WHY it was so critical to get a PREVIEW on a particular show...they made it sound like the end of the world if it didn't make it.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-04-2006, 04:49 PM:
 
Trust me Steve, it IS sometimes a life and death situation IF that one trailer isn't on the screen for the wknd performances.

Worked for a circuit that had trailer checkers watching for stuff like that like buzzards around roadkill - a specified trailer on a certain movie.

Film came in and we were short one required trailer amongst the trailers that were included in the cans. Thus, I reported it on the trailer list that is sent into Home Offive via email that Thurs night and make the request for an order for this required trailer.

Home office called me up and asked me if I have received that trailer yet, and of course ,UPS shipmemnt that day didn't include that trailer. Home Office then went absolutely bezerk and raised holy hell all over me saying that I had failed my position as Presentation Mgr. and I would be reported immediately to my immediate boss, who was the Chief of Presentations and Chief Engineer.

Yet, I quickly reversed that judgement by mentioning to them that I can get that required trailer from the opposition theatres in town (in which they did have after me calling around and with me having excellent work relations with the opposition theatres). Thus, I ran over to the one theatre that did have that trailer, got that danged trailer, mounted it on the required feature's trailer pak, and still had that required trailer on by the 7pm set and the checkers did report that trailer being in the required trailer pak.

Funny is, after all that butt-chewing and hell raising, Home Office complimented me on my valiant efforts in solving this crisis. Shoot, got a raise a month afterwards for doing this and other merits that I've accomplished as Presentation Mgr ....go-figure.

thx - Monte
 

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Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 09-04-2006, 06:30 PM:
 
I used to do something similar to that many times on Thursday
nights. I did it without getting film on the floor, and
without defeating any of the failsafes. However... :-)

I did find that one or two of the, shall we say, "less
experienced" projectionists would get it wrong and have a
show stop. This was certainly poor customer service, so we
now wait until the show has completed on a Thursday night
before changing the advert reel. It really doesn't take
much longer (sometimes it's as quick).

About the only time I'd lift out a advert/trailer reel
"on the run" is if it needs an edit _and_ there's only
a short turn-a-round between shows.

Generally not worth the risks, nice vid though. :-)

Alex.
 

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Posted by Ben Stephenson (Member # 741) on 09-04-2006, 07:10 PM:
 
I have panned the ads out a film while its been running, you need a good hour at the very least before even trying it or as soon as you pull the ring out the dam thing will just slide off the platter, im happy for people who don’t have to do this or split whilst running but sometimes we don’t have the time to do any thing but!
As for

quote: Brad Miller

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'In looking at the head of the feature, it appears it was permitted to slip around the center ring, further laying scratches on it for the first few feet'

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quote:

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I've done this with our Strong Aw-3's,

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(Whoops..got Christie on the mind, don't you? You meant the STRONG AP-3's. When I first read this, I couldn't see the elevator on a AW3 having anything to do with film payout action, until I saw the word STRONG.) You'd think that you would have enough intermission time to where that one house had dropped, you had already isolated that one trailer with long foam strips to wind in the area of trailer removal, so that you could splice in the new trailer after cutting the old one out, then replacing the trailer pak in the middle of the filmroll.... - Monte
 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 09-06-2006, 10:06 PM:
 
I don't remember what model it was, I do know at either the Wynnsong or the Carmike, we had AP-3's. The one I'm referring to had the selector switches, to set rewind/payout/etc. The AP-3, I though was the one without the switches, instead using switches on the rewind guide roller to detect where the film was rewinding to. I'd have had a bit more trouble with the automatic version.
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 09-07-2006, 11:09 PM:
 
And now I know why dollar house prints always look like shit
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-08-2006, 12:47 AM:
 
....not all of them look like that..the majority of my prints coming to our discount house are pretty clean...and even been coated in Film-Guard. Why some do look they've been run through the mill is the "booth clown" attitude -which is not caring since they've never been taught how. About once every other month, I have to order a replacement print since the one received has been cat-lined on the base side (mainly from ETS.. but TECH's not out of the woods as well with this..).

It's actually rare for an operator to have to do this special technique if there is organization and work arrangments met.

Personally, I haven't done any of these tricks for some time now but I'mproud of myself to know that I can do such a feat that would scare the novice booth operator.

-Monte
 

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Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 09-08-2006, 01:06 AM:
 
Me too. I'm glad I could do it, without damage. I hate having doing it though, but despetate times...... Anyhow, I palnned it out really, and even when I failed, the print didn't suffer, just caused the projector to stop. Didn't want that, but better than ruining a print. I have no where near the experience many of you guys have, but I am please that in my comparably short time, I have learned to pull off many things that's ruin any of the other local projectionists.
 

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