Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Print security gone too far?

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Posted by Alex Cross (Member # 3520) on 10-19-2006, 05:01 PM:

Yesterday afternoon, our copy of film 'X' arrived. Nothing unusual there. However, the delivery driver was told he had to watch it being made up, watch it on the 6:30 preview, watch it being broken down, before taking it away again. I have to say, I'm rather teed off that the whole situation insinuated that we'd have down something dishonest. Which I take great offence to. Is this something that happens regularly, or is this a one off? We're also regularly receiving prints in two halves. Normally, reels 1/3/5 arrives one day. And the next day we'll get 2/4/6. Is this how my colleagues around the globe have to deal with print security? I'd love to know your views/experiences. I fully understand the need to eliminate piracy, but is this going too far?

Alex.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-19-2006, 05:09 PM:

That's nothing new. You could have the best record in security and they will still be there watching the print.

Posted by Edwin Sheldon (Member # 4001) on 10-19-2006, 06:06 PM:

The only time I've encountered split shipments was with King Kong. We got reel 8 a few days early and the rest the day before the print was supposed to screen. Whose brilliant idea was that? If they were going to split the shipment, it would have made the projectionists less angry if they had shipped reel 1 and the trailers so we could get started on the build process. Having a reel just lying around for a few days that can't be built onto a print is just silly.

A few months ago, we received a fax from a depot (TES I think) saying they would split shipments in the manner you described. Three days later, they reversed their decision due to universal outcry from the projectionists.

Posted by Ian Woloschin (Member # 3709) on 10-19-2006, 06:08 PM:

I <3 non-theatrical showings.

I get a couple of old beat up film cans that must've been in circulation for 50 years. Occasionally I get a funny name on the outside, easy enough to open them up and check to the headers though. Delivery guy drops it off, I build it, show it, break it down, and then the delivery guy comes a few days later and takes the old film and brings a new one, relatively ad-infinitum. [beer]

Posted by Robert John Jeromson (Member # 2559) on 10-19-2006, 06:12 PM:

It's part of the furniture here now (so to speak). Split deliveries are a regular occurance in New Zealand, just recently 'Out of the Blue' was sent in odd reel and even reel deliveries.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 10-19-2006, 06:24 PM:

We had an odd amount of security with 'The History Boys', the code was 'Stage Fright' and after the preview half the reels were sent back. I think they take it more seriously when we get a UK release far in advance of the USA.

Also had a test screening of 'The Guardian' earlier in the summer, Disney had their own projector, two suited security guys on the door taking mobiles and coats from the audience, and two other guys just for projection.

Where I used to work, there were a couple of previews for a Harry Potter film, had two security guards during the entire film with night vision goggles.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 10-19-2006, 06:48 PM:

Don't take it personally Alex. I've been in that situation many times in the past. It's their job to make sure nothing happens to the print. They don't know if someone can get into the booth and do something to the print or if it will disappear while someone is not looking. It's not so much the projectionist they're worried about.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-20-2006, 02:33 AM:

Alex, which chain are you with?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-20-2006, 07:17 AM:

The first time that happened to me was with a sneak of "Gremlins." A guy named Vinne delivered it and said he was told to not let the print out of his sight. It's just film company paranoia and has nothing to do with the theater or it's employees.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 10-20-2006, 07:34 AM:

I have said this on here before: When I did a sneak of the Jurassic Park sequel in Miami, I had a guy with a gun stand next to the print it's entire run (through build up and breakdown). He made me nervous.

[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 10-20-2006, 11:08 AM:

Is it legal to have an unqualified person in the Projection Room standing over the Projectionist as they go about their duties? What about the H&S regulations?

Whatever about split shipments, this kind of thing seems well OTT. And armed guards as well? [Eek!]

What about the post houses and the like where all the real piracy is supposed to happen? Do armed personnel stand over Editors and Sound Editors as they work? When they go in to do the mix, are they met by a contingent of security personnel? Not likely! [Roll Eyes]

There are some really sensible, well worked out security procedures out there that are effective without intruding on people, and they've never mentioned interference of this kind.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 10-20-2006, 03:39 PM:

What is real crazy here in the UK, when prints are X-Over to other Cinemas. the Film Transport companies sometimes sub contract the work to other Carriers who are NOT approved by FACT to carry 35mm prints.

Some of the X-Overs have been done in Taxis, unknown "one Man and Van" most recently I have heard that a Cinema was closed so the film was left at a local Pub near by for the Cinema Projectionist to collect!.

What should be some concern to Film Companies is most of the Prints are moved by DHL and as I found their main disbribution Hub is mostly staffed by Agency East Europe Migrant workers and in time most of the Deliveries will be carried out by Agency Drivers or contract carriers.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-20-2006, 04:18 PM:

All the security steps being strictly applied to 35mm and digital virtual prints is absolutely worthless when the same Hollywood studios casually distribute screener DVDs among lots of people well before the movie is even released.

Many of the people receiving these screener DVDs are celebrities and other people with money who feel like they can do whatever they want. Some in this group and others outside of it viewing these screener DVDs think with only the right side of their brain and have poor impulse control.

This is why just about any major movie is already on the Internet available to download before the actual theatrical release happens.

If I was a studio chief I would just ban those screener DVDs.

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 10-20-2006, 05:40 PM:

Regarding X-overs in the UK:

I started asking the "man plus van" drivers for ID. One guy
didn't like it, because he didn't have his ID. His office
phoned my boss to confirm that he was supposed to be picking
up what-ever-title.

He brought his ID next time, even though it looked like it
was made at play-school with "my first scissors". We took
a note of his car registration plate just in case. :-)

Just the level of service we've come to expect from DHL.
(sarcasm...)

Alex.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 10-20-2006, 06:07 PM:

The same thing happened to me when I had a private showing of World Trade Center. The security guy would come up during make-up and tear down of the film. Of course, I didn't take offense at it because he was just doing his job.

Posted by Alex Cross (Member # 3520) on 10-20-2006, 06:58 PM:

I appreciate the guy was only doing his job, and as he said, he was getting paid to sit around and do nothing for hours! I've not got a problem with that at all. I do think split shipments should be in order 1-3/4-6. We're hardly likely to copy one half, then wait for the other half. My problem with split shipments is.... There's always going to be a problem wth one reel! And you're on screen the next day, and highly unlikely to get a replacement before the first show! I recall a green reel of the Departed... Took a week before we got a replacement. And that was only because I complained again that the customers were complaining! Regarding taxi's/white van man... We play Bollywood films weekly. Some bloke turns up, here you are... One film. We're lucky if it has a BBFC certificate. I once recieved a Bollywood film in 2 metal transit cases with padlocks.... And the keys for which, were still in India!! But, I'm glad to see it's not just us. Thanks to everyone who responded.

Alex

Posted by David M. Graham (Member # 4062) on 11-15-2006, 05:48 PM:

Heck,

Look at the security on digital prints!

Typically, they email the keys to the theater. If your company doesn't have the ability to handle email attachments inhouse, they'll email them to any old address just to get them there. Far from secure, as once the keys are released into the wild, there is a huge number of people capable of retrieving the attachment and using it. Talk about pointless....

David

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-15-2006, 06:02 PM:

Those D-Cinema keys are good only for a limited amount of time, usually 1 or 2 weeks. Then the movie goes dead. No consumer computer hardware can play back those movies. I'm not even sure if something like a high end Avid suite could even open and edit such movies once they are encoded in the JPEG2000 format.

As far as e-mailing keys goes, you have to set that up directly with your content provider. In the case of Carmike, a manager would have to talk to someone at AccessIT. That company isn't going to blindly e-mail things like security keys out to just anyone.

The screener DVDs are what the pirates want. Those are far easier to duplicate and sell or simply upload to the Internet.

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 11-16-2006, 12:44 AM:

Our keys are sent on thumb drives and arrive with the drives for the feature. Remember that the keys work only in the server that is installed in that theater. They only e-mail keys if there are problems with the drives.

Posted by Glen Rich (Member # 1150) on 11-19-2006, 07:34 AM:

"A Good Year" was screened for media at a distributors venue, afterwards one of our PR people was to get the print and bring it me to be re-made up, for another media screening. The projectionist gave her the boxes with the print in, then a large, somewhat overbearing security guard opened the second box and removed the 6th spool, telling her it would arrive an hour before the due screening.
Two hours before the scheduled screening the last spool arrives with 2 security guards, and is added to the end of the print on the plate. (noted that it could have been worse, it could very well have been spools 1-4, and have arrived 5 minutes before time).
As the screening starts another security guard arrives, and all 3 stand in the corners of the cinema watching the audience.
You're going to love this last bit...
Once the screening was done, the film was broken down, the 3 security guards left, and the boxes containing the whole print were put in the managers office, where it stayed unguarded for 2 days before going back to the distributors.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-19-2006, 11:00 AM:

Many chains have a policy of "no outsiders" in the booth. That includes security folk.

As regard security on Digital TV "prints," I have been assured that ANY system can be "cracked." Better systems just require a higher quality of work "Bigger lock needs bigger key." I do not myself have any of this knowledge, but my friends in computer research and cryptology laugh when I tell them that the film industry has secure encodings. Louis

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-19-2006, 11:25 AM:

It's true any system can be cracked. At the very least, the DCI system for digital projection makes it pretty difficult.

Even if the system can be cracked, the hacker is left with a GIANT sized set of video files that are not compatible with any kinds of regular computer video editing gear. The hacker would essentially need some kind of digital cinema setup of his own to play back JPEG2000 movies at that high bitrate AND have some way to down-sample the video streams to formats that are compatible with average DVD or HD-DVD equipment. The hacker may be faced with writing his own software to do the job and shell out a lot of money for high end equipment to handle the files.

For all the extra work involved, I think that will make the DVD screener discs most pirates use even more desirable. All the more reason to put very serious restrictions on DVD screener discs and put together really harsh penalties on those who allow them to wind up in the hands of pirates. IMHO, movie studios should just get rid of the screener discs entirely. It isn't going to break any movie star's ass to watch the movie in a screening room on the movie studio lot.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 11-19-2006, 08:18 PM:

quote:
We play Bollywood films weekly. Some bloke turns up, here you are... One film. We're lucky if it has a BBFC certificate. I once recieved a Bollywood film in 2 metal transit cases with padlocks.... And the keys for which, were still in India!!

We were lucky if the films came in metal transit cases, usually straw boxes. Also our film dump was full of Bollywoods from the 2 years the site has been open, distributors had no storage space and didn't want to send prints back to India so never collected them. As for BBFC certificates, had one distributor cum delivery guy who didn't know what they were, put the roll of film in his pocket! Considering more Indian films are shown than British ones in the UK now there will have to be a point where the distributors take a leap into some sort of ordered system for prints.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Those D-Cinema keys are good only for a limited amount of time, usually 1 or 2 weeks. Then the movie goes dead.

The keys we had worked for ages, Cars for example was maybe 7 or 8 weeks and most seem to be a month at least.

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 11-19-2006, 08:23 PM:

Our print of The Devil Wears Prada has very visable crap codes throughout but, according to posters' reviews of Casino Royale, there are no such codes in D-cinema.
So it is impossible to copy digital images? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-19-2006, 09:41 PM:

It's been purported that in digital cinema, the actual movie is modified in various copies (e.g., red flower pot in the left on the background, smiling extra in a restaurant in another, etc.), sufficient to uniquely identify the theatre. I don't know if this is actually happening.

(As for the math, it only takes 12 such possible things to distinguish between 4000 theatres -- log_2(4096) => 12 -- so it is certainly feasible to do such a thing, though it's not obvious that they go to the trouble; I guess there aren't that many dcinema theatres. log_2(512) => 9).

--jhawk

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-20-2006, 12:01 AM:

My understanding was D-Cinema movie files had a far less visible form of watermarking encoded into the imagery.

If that's the case, the watermarking sure doesn't show up like Crap Code on a 35mm film print. It's pretty easy to see some red dots tattooed on white areas of a film image during some flashy action sequence. They might as well just stamp the print number all over the frame.

Posted by Charles Greenlee (Member # 3856) on 11-20-2006, 12:20 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
It's pretty easy to see some red dots tattooed on white areas of a film image during some flashy action sequence.

I've seen those too, but I had just assumed that it was caused by something during printing. A minor flaw.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-20-2006, 05:47 PM:

Umm...no. Search for "CAP Code" and "CRAP code."

--jhawk