Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Smart Showmation Automation Shutting Down

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Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-23-2006, 10:35 AM:

Hi Guys...

Got a long standing issue with a Samrt Showmation basic automation. The cinema is a four screen all with identical equipment one has a problem the others don't.

The problem is that the show will shut down at random for no apparent reason. This has been an issue since installation and the installation company were aware of it but didn't persue the problem.

I have done the following...

Changed FM35 que reader with a known good screen.
Re run all low voltage cables which were running alongside the mains cables out of trunking completly.

Changed automation main board with known good unit from another screen. Problem did not follow automation board, and continues in the same screen.

I have also checked the phasing in each screen and they all follow the same plan.

So it's clearly not a faulty automation main board but there is clearly something in this screen that the automation does not like.

The projectors are Cinemeccanica Vic 5's with Cinemeccanica 1600 vertical lamphouse. Compact switch mode rectifier italian veronace, not sure how to spell the name. And lastly ORC platters.

As you can see some of the equipment is effectivly obsolete and it has taken over a year to get it all running smoothly. Apart from the problem in one screen with the automation that is!

Any ideas please....

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-23-2006, 11:08 AM:

Is anyother function happening in the building at the same time as the fault occurs?
a spike caused by a lamp lighting or major load in the building switching can cause most micro control automations to hang up
we have often had that problem with TA10s
also when it shuts down does it execute a shutdown sequence or does the projector just stop?
Most of that equipment is not that obselete and should give good service

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-23-2006, 11:33 AM:

Hi Gordon,

The automation functions correctly in all other respects. When it does shut down it is an alarm condition as the start button is flashing to indicate it as such. Show end correctly without an alarm condition.

The shutdowns do not seem to be connected with activity in other screens as I have been here overnight when nothing else is running and the same happens. The shutdown can happen anytime at random.

I have asked them to try powering down the automation, striking the lamp and then turning the automation back on to see if that helps.

As for the equipment in general it is old and I have been able to get it all working reliably but it needs someone who knows what's what to nurse it along. Considering the problems at the start it's now quite a stable setup. To give an example of the standard of the install, screen four had the anamorphic and it's backing lens Gaffa taped together! One automation did not work at all. None of the platters worked correctly and in one case the take up plate stopped and as the automation was not working caused a film wrap round the lower sprocket, the prjectors are at floor level so the film built up quite quickly. This resulted in the wraped film stopping the projector suddenly and taking the shutter gear box with it!

I got all the automations working and made some sliding film wrap sensors. But this one problem is causing a real headache.

Thanks for your input Gordon....

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-23-2006, 11:37 AM:

is there a remote anounciator?
they can often be the backdoor that a glitch will get into a system

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-23-2006, 11:42 AM:

Ken, just a thought...

I've had occasions when a wire on the FM35 cable would not mate properly with the plug pin it's pressed into, causing random havoc. This might not be what your problem is, but considering it seems to be failsafe related, it might be something to confirm.

Jack

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-23-2006, 12:59 PM:

Gordon there are no remote anounciator's and there is no wiring connected to the data terminals. The fact that there are no remote anounciators is another concern as when the show shuts down it's only discovered when a punter complains!

Jack I thought of that one and in desperation soldered directly onto the pcb to eliminate that as a possibility.

It really does point to mains bourn spikes so when I get the chance I'll move the power onto another phase and see if that has any effect.

You can see I've put a lot of effort into this....

Thanks again for your input.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-23-2006, 01:38 PM:

Ken try putting a jumper across the terminals of the automation that has the closed contact for the failsafe and see if it still acts up that will tell quickly if it is outside or inside the box has a wireing fault
Also add some gmovs between the phase to ground and neutral to ground in the automation to help filter spikes
hope that helps

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 10-23-2006, 02:33 PM:

Ken, For what’s it worth I had a similar problem with my automation, not shutting down exactly but pulsing a matrix line sporadic. Found the problem was the remote buttons for a 5k dimmer which were 15 volt dc, designed mostly for hotel use with many remote stations. I cured the problem by putting a relay on the dimmer board to the remote control.

Just my experience caused by a dimmer circuit. Hope you find your problem as easy.

http://www.hamilton-litestat.com/

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-24-2006, 03:34 PM:

ordon

I did test that out a while ago but will do it again in case things have changed in anyway. It was a bit of a shambles and alot of work has been done since so well worth trying it out again.
Could you resend your other suggestion please. For some reason I can't make out what you typed. Technology is a wonderful thing.... when it works.

Bernard I'd already thought of the dimmers and did disconnect them from the automation. Made no difference.....

I appreciate all of your suggestions.... will try them all out and see what happens.

Regards.

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 10-26-2006, 11:42 AM:

Ken,

I agree with Gordon's suggestion to put a jumper across the failsafe contacts as a temporary test to see if it still fails.

Also, when wired normally (no jumper) you should see about 4.3 to 4.7 VDC across the failsafe contacts if the machine is unthreaded. When threaded up and running, you should see 0 VDC across the contacts (or VERY close to zero). Try moving wires, connectors, etc. to see if the voltage goes up momentarily. I does not take much time at all for the automation to interpret the open connection as a film break. You may actually need a scope instead of a meter to see the thing misbehave.

Also, I have seen problems with wire connections on the Phoenix connectors where the wire insulation was captured in the connector instead of the actual wire. Sometimes the wire makes contact down inside, and sometimes it doesn't. I imagine when you swapped the main board, you just unplugged the Phoenix connectors and then re-plugged them rather than re-wiring. The problem would still be there even with a different main board.

Do you have fire alarm relays wired in series with the failsafe? I have seen problems there also. If a fire alarm relay fails to maintain contact, the automation thinks there was a film break.

Hope some of this helps.

Oscar

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-26-2006, 11:59 AM:

Gordon,

thanks for your emails I'll give your thougts a try and see what happens.

Oscar, the fire alarm interface is the one thing I'd overlooked. The symptoms would indeed present the apperance of an alarm situation.

As I've explained before the installation was certainly not the best and many many problems were left. It's quite possibly a matter of 'can't see the wood for the tree's' with so many other problems. However having sorted everything else it's time to start from scratch on this problem and cover everything again.

I can see this problem running a while yet but I'm determined to get it sorted.

Thanks to everyone for their help.