Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Component Engineering automation problems

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Posted by Jeff Else (Member # 4063) on 12-16-2006, 03:25 PM:

I've been having this problem with Component Engineering TA-10 automation and a FM-37 cue reader after changing back to 35mm from 70mm. When the program starts, soon after the dowser opens, it shuts again. If you hit dowser open on the automation control, it just shuts again in a few seconds. The last time I ran 70, I had the same problem, but it stopped after adjusting the position of the bottom roller, making the film sit better on the cue reader rollers. Now it seems to be all situated properly, but it keeps failing. Help!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-16-2006, 04:49 PM:

Do you have it wired to have a dowser close foil for format change
if so I would suspect the molex connector

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-17-2006, 11:04 AM:

Any alarms or flashing lights?

Do the "Film Presence" and "Film Motion" lights stay lit (both on the automation and on the failsafe) at all times? Try cleaning the little film detectors underneath the horizontal metal plate that goes over the beveled, black film roller. While you're at it, clean the rollers, too. Even if they are not part of the problem, it can't hurt to clean them.

Are there any stray cues on the film? For example, "tail cue" after the dowser opens will cause it to close again.

Is the automation in "interlock" mode? Is the interlock system working correctly? There have been glitches in the TA-10 caused by faulty interlock connections.

Posted by Sean R. Custer (Member # 3531) on 12-17-2006, 05:39 PM:

What automation are you using? Suppose you have a Christie AM8 or something to a simmilar effect with a rotating timer and cams; the microswitches could be tripping over and over becasue the "failsafe" is detecting motion or presence but maybe not both at the same time. It could stay running and keep the bulb on but it would want to shut the dowser and select non-sync.

That cue detector is very sensitive to having things aligned and rotating correctly. If it slips even a millimeter it all goes to hell. Could be splices moving slightly off track.

Just a couple thoughts...

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-17-2006, 08:08 PM:

Sean said "What automation are you using?"
read the first post it says a compnent engineering TA10
so the points on timing cams are of no use at all in solving the problem

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 12-18-2006, 03:08 PM:

When you say the dowser opens then shuts again what is the status of the show at that time.

There is the normal 7 second delay from motor start to dowser open and the Showrun led turning on. When the dowser shuts is the Showrun led going off.

If so it suggests that the automation is going into interval!
If not does the show continue normally or is it going into alarm?

There is a possibility that there is an accumulation of debris on the cue sensor, which may be giving a false interval cue.
Or there is a lot of dirt on the alarm roller that is causing a shutdown when the dowser opens. The alarms are not activated until the Showrun led is lit. There is also a slight delay from the time an alarm/fault is detected to the alarm activating so you would indeed get the dowser opening and then shortly after the dowser closing as the alarm/fault is detected.

Hope some of this helps.

Posted by Jeff Else (Member # 4063) on 12-19-2006, 03:26 PM:

hmm... well it mysteriously stopped misbehaving a few hours after my post.. but a little more info... when the dowser closes, the cue reader flashes "outboard" indicating (correct me if i'm wrong) what is supposed to be a read of the cue position, at least in our system of end show, dowser close. So it seems to be reading a phantom cue... everything is clean, and it only happens for a bit after changing back from 70, and I'm sure the roller position is proper. So it will work fine now but when i changeover in the future I want to avoid this

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 12-20-2006, 06:11 PM:

From what you are saying it seems the automation is going into interval.... after 'seeing' a cue which is not present?

Have you got another FM70 cue reader you can swap with. Or have to spoken to CE and asked for their help. They are VERY helpful and have always given me excellent support.

Roller spacing/positioning is in my opinion not going to be your problem.

One thing that may be worth trying is the xenon strike shield that CE supply. This stops the xenon strike from 'upsetting' the automation causing it to become unstable when the show starts.

Do you strike your xenon as the projector starts or a few minutes before you start the projector. Xenon strike is notorious for causing problems with automations because it is random and inconsistent and therefore difficult to determine. You may have six screens all exactly the same with one exhibiting problems while the others are fine.

It's worth asking CE for their opinion.

Regards Ken.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-20-2006, 10:48 PM:

Had the same kind of problem with our TA-10/FM-35. It was the "Lights OUT" cue that was going nuts with ours. (But our cue arrangement isn't the same as yours so that's a moot point.)

Anyhow, chaning out the cue reader solved the problem.

It's a dead-simple job. Just a screwdriver and 3 minutes of time is all it takes to replace.

Just think: Those detectors have to be able to sense a piece of metal no bigger than a 1/4 inch, moving at nearly 100 feet per minute and they have to do it in an environment full of metal, RF interference and electrical voltage spikes. That little detector block is doing a tough job. It's no wonder more of them don't fail prematurely!

Posted by Jeff Else (Member # 4063) on 12-21-2006, 01:07 PM:

well we do have another identical cue reader from another JJ that no longer has any hope for doing 70, so i'll swap them and see what happens!