Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Night At The Museum - Scene Framing Composition Variations

This is topic Night At The Museum - Scene Framing Composition Variations in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-12-2007, 09:07 AM:

I meant to post this a week or two ago, but kept forgetting about it. I walked past Night At The Museum the other day, and the scene looked like it was mis-framed, but only by a little bit. Some of the character's heads were cut off, and there were other clues that tell a seasoned projectionist that the framing is off. Before turning the knob, I looked at it, and it was in the proper position. I watched the movie, and the next scene looked fine. I watched for a little while longer, and various other scenes looked like they had the same "out of frame" problem.

Anyone else notice that, or is it just me?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-13-2007, 01:53 AM:

...wonder if lab printing is at fault, for I've seen printed films that the frameline isn't dead center inbetween the two representive sprocketholes.

The frameline is either higher, or lower instead of being in dead center ...

Next time you notice this, see where the scene and frameline comparison to the print when looking in the framebox while in operation when these sequences comes across on the screen.

Kinda of a bummer that the thing is in FLAT, due to the SCOPE trailers made the movie look real good...

-Monte

Posted by Alex Grueneberg (Member # 2652) on 01-13-2007, 02:18 AM:

edit: off topic.

[ 01-15-2007, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Alex Grueneberg ]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-14-2007, 08:57 AM:

Mark, don't go by a marking on the frame adjust knob. That isn't an absolute -- someone might have adjusted it incorrectly and only a slight differnce can indeed cut off heads in a print where some scene compostions are very tight. The better gauge is: is the frameline sitting exactly where it's supposed to be when you thread up or as Monte points out, when you inspect the print, are the framelines EXACTLY centered between two sprocket holes, and yet heads are STILL chopped off on the screen? Are you sure that this particular system is right on the money in terms of properly cut plates and screen masking? Not every installation winds up giving a perfect 1.85 on the screen - some cheat -- and whereas in 90% of the films it won't be obvious that there is a slight extra crop top-to-bottom, in a very tight shot it will show up. Is this system actually giving you 1.85 on the screen -- this isn't one of those 2:1 abominations is it....you know, where both scope and flat are projected at 2:1, s it? As Monte points out, lab errors do occur, but those are rare and far between....I'd put my money on 1) simply the framing adjustment is slightly off or 2) the system is giving you slightly under 1.85 on the screen -- those before a lab error.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-14-2007, 09:09 AM:

It is possible that it was printed on a bidirectional printer that runs forward and reverse and there can be a slight frame line difference between directions
But that displacement is still well within the safe area for set of appertures cut to proper SMPTE specs

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-14-2007, 11:13 PM:

Thanks for the replies, guys.

The frame knob is ok. I check it to make sure it's adjusted correctly after every start. Some yahoo here used to mess them up all the time, although I don't think it was on purpose. So now I just check them every time I start the show. It's pretty easy to adjust our "Coming Soon" snipe, and then check the knob to make sure it's right.

It's not the whole movie that's out. Just some scenes look off vertically. Maybe I'm just too picky. [Frown]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-15-2007, 01:50 PM:

Just for reference's sake, I run a loop of 35PA (RP-40) to see where my frame to center of screen relationship is, then I have place a piece of cuefoil on the face of the knob at the "6'o-clock" position with the corresponding mark on the case of the soundhead (Simplex35 and 5 Star soundhead - one can do similar with other makes) to ensure dead-center default framing.

[ 01-15-2007, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Jason Whyte (Member # 1433) on 01-16-2007, 04:34 AM:

I saw the movie recently with the projector perfectly in frame and also noticed some very odd framing at points in the movie, as well as a very slight hard matte at the bottom of the screen on a couple of effects shots.

It appears to me that the film was shot in Super 35 with the intention of releasing it in Scope 2.39 (I saw a trailer on a Fox DVD where it was letterboxed to that ratio), and then at the last second it was decided to be released it in the 1.85:1 ratio instead.

Just a guess.

Jason

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 01-16-2007, 05:50 AM:

I worked on a super 35mm production shot with pana arri cameras (arriflex camera modified for panavision lenses and 24 volt batteries, arri is 12v) as the camera trainee/ video split operator.
The split and video playback would occasionally be knocked out of allignment, we realised what was happening after the director would ask the operator to frame up a bit ect. This did effect a few of the shots that were used in the final edit.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-16-2007, 09:31 AM:

Thanks, Jason.

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 01-18-2007, 01:31 PM:

I had something similar with my print of Casino Royale, except it was with a whole reel.
Reel 3 was ever so slightly out of frame with the others.
The first time I ran it I thought something was wrong with the projector. I adjusted the framing to fix it for that show, then after the show put the framing knob back to normal.
The next show it did the same thing on reel 3.