Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Can you run DTS trailer disk with two drive unit?

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 01-19-2007, 09:49 AM:

If you have one of the OLD two-drive DTS players can you run the trailer disk and then switch out to the feature disk after the trailers are over. Basically, how long will it take to start playing off the feature disk?

I'm pretty sure you can't put the trailer disk and disk 1 of the feature in and then eject the trailer disk during the first part of the feature? Tell me if I'm wrong on this but I think doing it that way will interrupt the sound.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out a way (other than adding a drive) to run the trailers in DTS with a couple of old players.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-19-2007, 11:51 AM:

If you have access to a CD burner -- and these days, who doesn't? -- use this tip to put the feature onto a single disc.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-19-2007, 11:59 AM:

Another possible workaround: insert a non-DTS trailer/policy immediately before the feature. While this plays, eject the trailer disks, insert the feature disks, and power-cycle the unit (apparently, you are supposed to always power-cycle the DTS box whenever the disks are changed).

Burning the trailer and feature files onto one disk is a much slicker solution, though.

Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 01-19-2007, 12:00 PM:

My experience with the very first DTS playback unit was that this wouldn't work. If you ejected either disc and loaded a new one, the unit would drop into bypass mode and essentially 'reboot'. Not an actual reboot of the platform, but it would purge all active jobs and re-load from the discs.

The idea of burning the trailer disc R14 files onto a copy of the feature discs is a workable solution, provided you've got a handy supply of blank media - and theres room on the disc for the R14 file. Keep in mind that the trailer discs do not store each trailer as a seperate file - they are all compiled into a single file which then has an index file (Trailer x begins at position y and so forth).

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-19-2007, 12:06 PM:

Um....didn't Scott just tell us to reboot the unit anyway? That's why you would insert a non-DTS trailer. You would reboot the unit during this trailer, when there is no DTS activity.

As for combining content onto a single disc, I belive the idea is to put the entire feature, sans the trailers, on one disc. This custom feature disc would be disc one, and the trailer disc would be disc two.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-19-2007, 12:10 PM:

It is possible to extract individual trailer soundtracks from the R14 file. jhawk has posted before about doing this. I've never tried it because a) it's been several years since I ran a booth with DTS and b) I don't like to run trailers in digital sound anyway.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 01-19-2007, 12:11 PM:

Putting the feature on one disk is a very cool idea! What is the maximum length feature that can fit on one disk sans the trailer file? I thought the maximum time of a two disk feature was 3:20 so is the maximum length feature that this would work with 1:40?

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-19-2007, 12:35 PM:

Would it be possible to replace the CD drives in the DTS unit with DVD ones, and write all the files to a DVD-R disc if they were too large to fit onto a CD-ROM?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-19-2007, 12:41 PM:

That's not a bad idea. The two- and three-drive upgrade kits that DTS is currently shipping use DVD ROM drives.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2007, 12:42 PM:

Nothings impossible to engineer or pull off but in your case its just not worth it. What you should do is to add a 3rd drive to your 2 drive DTS. Its very easy but you need to have the same type of SCSI drive that is presently installed in your unit. The latest drive kits from DTS are based on DVD drives... in fact IDE DVD drives, not SCSI DVD. The upgrade kits latest digested version includes a stick on IDE to SCSI converter board on the back of each drive and the usual other stuff... new SCSI controller board and AQRM board as well as the latest software and extra hardware. You can also hang more than three drives on if you need.

What actually makes the most sense is whats called the DTS XD-10. Where in the data from the CD's is simply written to a hard drive within the unit. Also see in the tips section on how to add that third drive to your two drawer unit.

Mark

Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 01-19-2007, 04:20 PM:

quote: Ken Lackner
Um....didn't Scott just tell us to reboot the unit anyway? That's why you would insert a non-DTS trailer. You would reboot the unit during this trailer, when there is no DTS activity.

Scott posted his remarks while I was composing mine - I didn't see his response until after mine was completed. Linear time - what a concept.

The point I was trying to make is that you probably cannot do this live - the original units took nearly two minutes to boot. A non-DTS component would be the optimal time to do the disc swapping as Scott outlines.

It would be very nice to be able to remove discs which are not active and have the new ones become available without interrupting playback. DTS gets around this now with the Hard Drive equipped units.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-19-2007, 04:34 PM:

Given that dts 6 and 6d units are really 386 mainframes, would it be too much to add a hard drive, mounted externally? We already have the computer power and 2 or 3 input drives. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2007, 06:09 PM:

Well, I suppose if DTS offered this as a kit they'd sell very few XD-10's. That is certainly a possibility to do and I once heard rumors of them doing that but its not happenning without a new bios and firmware to run all that. Again... on a 386/486 is it worth it.
The DAC's in the XD-10 are also far superior to the old chips. There are many advantages from both a sound and technical standpoint to installing XD-10's instead.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-19-2007, 06:22 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Again... on a 386/486 is it worth it.

and finding SCSI HDD's to daisy chain in with the SCSI controller card and giving it a unique ID address.

..yet,funny thing is that I've done trailer discs with the DTS-6 unit, esp with a single CD movie. Works like a charm. But, with a two disc movie, just wait until the show begins then remove the trailer disc.

Just have "B" disc in on show startup and let "A" load up to start the DTS sequence on insertion.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-20-2007, 10:41 AM:

I like modifying things just to see it it can work. Even if it's not worth it or not as beneficial as another route, I just wanna see if it can be done. What about this: remove the C drive from a DTS-6D, and install a removable HDD enclousure. Install the same enclosure in your PC. Get a SCSI drive to put in the encosure. Every week, when you get movies in, pop the discs in your PC, copy them to the removable drive, then throw that drive in the 6D.

I'm not advocating that anyone actually try this. But can anyone think of a reason that it would not work? One reason I thought of was that fact that you are not supposed to have movie discs from two different movies loaded at the same time, so I wouldn't think a HDD would be any different. Am I right?

Side question: If the above is true, then why does it work on an XD10?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-20-2007, 10:49 AM:

I am assuming Lyle has not seen this yet.

Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 01-22-2007, 01:18 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Given that dts 6 and 6d units are really 386 mainframes, would it be too much to add a hard drive, mounted externally? We already have the computer power and 2 or 3 input drives. Louis

Computers typically see CD drives as being a fairly different sort of animal than a hard drive, and the software for the 6/6D never knew anything about dealing with a hard drive, so if you connected a hard drive, I doubt it would do anything useful with that hard drive.

I also thought the 6D came with a 486 and not a 386. But maybe that depends on the exact vintage; and I think the 6D that I've seen disassembled ended up with a non-DTS motherboard (but of course, it still has all the DTS ISA cards).

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-22-2007, 02:57 AM:

quote: Joel N. Weber II
and the software for the 6/6D never knew anything about dealing with a hard drive, so if you connected a hard drive, I doubt it would do anything useful with that hard drive.

...the problem still lies with the boot record - which is on the discs, and the system (either 386/486 processor) still needs that boot record to work with the AQRM card to initialize boot sequence...and, once again, with a SCSI HDD drive addressed in the chain with a boot record installed to perform boot sequence.

When you turn on these older units without discs, it's like the system is stuck at the end of the POST sequence-waiting for a boot kernel from an external source to begin initalize the system. The same is when you pop open the trays: system is resetting (warm boot) itself to accept the boot record again from the external source.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-22-2007, 08:10 AM:

The DTS software appears to actually look for the signature of the model of CD Rom drive used and if it can't see the specific supported drives it will not work reliably

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-22-2007, 08:39 AM:

Also don't forget that the 6, 6D units run on DOS and the XD-10 runs on Linux.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-22-2007, 03:07 PM:

..plus, an interesting side note is that you can even use APPLE SCSI drives in these DOS based units - as long as you have the v.1.46 firmware update and address the drives accordingly.