Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Screen ad ratio problem

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Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 02-18-2007, 03:38 AM:

Hi all,

we have recently had our video full motion screen ads made up in 16.9 ratio. The advertising guy uses and apple to produce the ads , I receive them in mpeg format . When I run them on the screen they come up "squashed up" 4.3 ratio.

When playing them on the office pc the windows media player also displays them in 4.3 "squashed"

I have seen a captured frame from the advertising guy from his apple player and they are definitely working at 16.9 on his system.

I am curious , can windows media player display 16.9 ratio? if not this may be the issue with my media player that feeds the LCD projector , it also runs from a windows based program.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-18-2007, 04:14 AM:

Is it normal to get ads in digital form over there; here we get them on 35mm?

Yes, WMP should be able to display 16:9, but I did once download a clip, I think it came rom the BFI, which had the opposite problem, it was supposed to be 3:4, but WMP, and I think some versions of Quicktime as well, insisted on stretching it to 16:9.

I don't know where the aspect ratio is encoded with anamorphic video, on a DVD it's in the .ifo and .bup files, but obviously this isn't the case with a stand-alone MPEG file. How big are these files? Are any of them small enough that you could e-mail it to me to look at, even if it's only a few seconds, or even a few frames. I have various mpeg tools available, as well as both WMP and Quicktime on both PC and Mac, and I could have a look. I've just taken a couple of clips in iMovie, exported them, encoded them with Windows Media Encoder, and they play fine. There are lots of different types of mpeg files, do you know what format these are in, what the number of pixels is, in both directions, and what software was used to produce them?

Also, what version of WMP are you using? I've just tried that 'problem' clip I had in the latest version, and it now plays ok. I can't remember what version I had the problem with before.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-18-2007, 06:24 AM:

Can this be an issue that the projector itself can correct? Can't the projector be set to display whatever is fed to it with a stretch-to-16:9?

Then there's the Schneider 1.3x anamorphic that you can plop in front of the projector (a neat little $6000 solution [Eek!]

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 02-18-2007, 07:11 AM:

I am running windows media player 10 on the office pc.

The projector ratio remains fixed when receiving signal via the RGB port the only way the change ratio display is by naming video files .#R1 (4.3) .#R2 (16.9) etc .However this does not seem to be working on these files.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 02-18-2007, 09:57 PM:

It sounds more like an issue of the projector being forced to display 16:9 ads in a 4:3 ratio. Have you tried changing the projector aspect ratio? usually its a simple as a button labelled ASPECT RATIO. If its not a 16:9 projector, then select something like letterbox.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2007, 04:39 AM:

There is a software program called "Ovation" that we use instead of using Media Player for our ads - which is coming from a server to the 6 digital units via network cabling system.

Course, ours are set up to play 4.3 and the installer set the projectors up to 16.9 which stretched out the image, but he did this to fill up the screens.

(I'll get some more info on this product and shoot if off later since I'm not at the theatre...)

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 02-19-2007, 06:29 AM:

Sounds like the file has been made as anamorphic but has not been flagged as anamorphic.
So WM Player plays it 4:3.

There is an application that allows the change of flag - but I can't remember what its called. It's German I think.

Alternatively ask the maker to generate the file as widescreen shape and not anamorphic.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 02-19-2007, 04:11 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
Is it normal to get ads in digital form over there; here we get them on 35mm?

In Australia, 35mm slides are a format used in advertising in cinemas, these are being replaced by digital slides, which will also include low cost video ads before the 35mm ones start.

Phil, its a flagging issue, discuss it with the producer of the ads! While you wait set the projector to 16.9 stretch to fill type option if it has one rather than auto.

What sort of projector do you have? Mine is a cineo 3. All the projectors seem different to me.

Posted by Christopher Meredith (Member # 3767) on 02-19-2007, 04:46 PM:

This may not be helpful at all, but if you are in a position to run Linux on your ad server, you can use "mplayer" to play your files. mplayer accepts command line arguments ('-aspect 16:9' I believe) or you can cycle through aspect ratios with the "a" key. mplayer is also fully scriptable so you could use a set of simple scripts to run ads or custom programs if you like.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2007, 11:30 PM:

UPDATE: here is the site of the program that we use for our digital displays -> http://www.ovationinteractive.com

What it curtails is a server with WinXP PRO loaded and Ovation is a program, along with networking devices and CAT-5E cable to interconnect the digital units to this server running Ovation.

...hope this helps . Monte

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-20-2007, 02:50 PM:

Here are some questions I have, from reading the foregoing:

Should distributors of this content ideally send out everything "flat" / letterboxed so as to avoid problems like this, but at the same time losing the quality advantages of 16x9 anamorphic?

Also, does decoding anamorphic content in the player actually make much difference than if the content was supplied flat / letterboxed in the first place (assuming "flat" projection)?

Finally, even if you set up the projector to display unsqueezed material, what happens if some ads are flat? Can current projectors automatically switch between "unsqueeze" and flat modes?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-20-2007, 03:00 PM:

Just set your projector to 16:9 or anamorphic projection. I guarantee you that unless you are using a seriously out of date technology-wise projector, the setting IS in your setup menus on the projector somewhere. [Wink]

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 02-20-2007, 03:50 PM:

...just like I said [thumbsup]

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 02-21-2007, 11:44 PM:

Thanks for all the help , I think we have it sorted.

the main problem with the Panasonic LDC projector (model pt L780) is that the ratio becomes fixed when the signal input is via the RGB connection. ratios can only be changed when input is via S Video, RCA or DVI.
Since our media player connects to the projector via the RGB the video ads have to be encoded so the media player instructs the projector on what ratio to use.
I have found out The video files are to be created 1024 x 560 in a pal frame and named for example "cocacola#R1.mpg for flat and cocacola#R2.mpg for 16.9 . to #R is the encoding that the media player sets the ratio.

The software being used TMP enc .

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-22-2007, 07:28 AM:

Forgive me - I'm still confused as to why you're being supplied with both anamorphic and non-anamorphic content if your display ratio is fixed at 4x3. Why not just get everything encoded #R1 for flat? Just curious.