This is topic I got an interview to be a projectionist at The Majestic! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008532
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 02-28-2007, 04:23 PM:
 
I don't know if this is the right section for this, so feel free to move it if it's not.

I've got an interview this Friday to be a projectionist at the new Marcus Majestic Cinema that's opening in May in Brookfield, WI. It's being promoted as Marcus's new "flagship" theatre, and if you've read any of the news articles about it, it sounds like a pretty exciting place. (Two UltraScreens, in-house restaurant, Palladium, etc.)

Now I'm looking for pointers anyone might want to give me for the interview. I have absolutely NO projectionist experience. I do however have a pretty good understanding of the technology (I read this forum), and a genuine interest in being a projectionist and doing a good job, which I think is more than can be said for a lot of people who wind up getting the position. I'm one who travels to theaters all throughout my area, I don't wince at driving for an hour or more to check out a new theater to see what the presentation is like. I'm the one who will complain about the picture being blurry, off-center, jittery, or the sound not being in digital or clicking in and out of it. I am thinking of writing up a little resume that even points out things like that... for example, how I helped another local theater (non-Marcus) fix their Dolby Digital sound issues. (I emailed the manager, he said the DTS disc arrived late so they switched it to a Dolby Digital screen but he assured me it was in digital. I wrote back listing all the reasons it wasn't, and he later replied how they would've never known of the problems with the sound system on that screen had I not emailed.) Or, how I helped the local WB 18 (before it was the CW) fix their Dolby Digital sync issues on their HD channel. (Through speaking with their tech on the MilwaukeeHDTV forum and giving feedback on what I think the correct audio delay ms needs to be from tweaking with the HD video stream on my computer.)

I'm a perfectionist when it comes to A/V quality, I've been known to spend endless hours tweaking the settings on my DLP projector to squeeze out every last ounce of quality I can get from it. I've worked with Movie-List for years (2nd most popular movie trailer site online next to Apple's), and taught the webmaster how to do better QuickTime encodes of trailers at a quality level that even Apple themselves weren't able to reach at the time. I've even edited some trailers of my own, my best being a trailer for Desperado, which people said was very close to being on a professional level. I'm a moderator at the local MilwaukeeHDTV forum, so I'm a big home theater enthusiast and have a very good understanding of video technology.

But, there's that problem of having absolutely no experience being a projectionist, and my only "real" job reference at the age of 22 is working as a part-time tech guy at a local catering company for about a year. Also, I have little interest in working my way up in the ranks from a concessions, ticket sales, or usher job, since the projectionist aspect is what's bringing me there... but if I have to do some of that while I'm in the process of training, that's fine with me. So, I really need to "sell" myself in this interview, and get across my genuine interest in the field. I've heard that sometimes you must join the projectionists' union, which requires a training course, and I'm absolutely fine with that.

So, I guess I'm looking for any pointers you guys could give me... any heads up for questions the manager might ask, what to expect at a Marcus interview... things like that. I REALLY want this job, and since my references are pretty lean, I'm really counting on doing a good job in this interview.

Thanks for any help!
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-28-2007, 07:41 PM:
 
Your resume is both good and bad.

Good because you show a deep interest and caring about what you are applying for.

Bad because this sort of resume implies that you will be a tinker.

Ultimately it will depend on the person hiring as to whether you are a good selection or not.

Also, you did not "fix" anything. You "assisted with troubleshooting by providing input based upon your experience". Choose your words carefully.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 02-28-2007, 08:59 PM:
 
Well that's why I put it as "helped them fix" but you make a really good point, I'll probably word it more like the way you put it. I don't think I'll dwell on spending a lot of time tweaking my projector, but I think it's probably good to convey that I'm a big home theater enthusiast, right?
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-28-2007, 09:52 PM:
 
Depends. That and stuff like "I spend endless hours tweaking my home theater" or "I have no technical or cinema experience, but I read online forums" could be gigantic red flags blowing strongly and proudly in the wind for many interviewers.

You are not supposed to "tweak" anything in the booth. You are supposed to make up the movies, thread them, and clean the projectors. It takes a whole lot more experience and knowledge than you appear to think to "tweak" anything. Tinkerers who have no experience but already know it all are among the worst nightmares for people who are responsible for technical operations. That's why these forums here are so alive with people discussing all sorts of topics and asking for advice all the time and that includes many people who have been in this business for many years.

I am not even convinced you have a clear idea of what this job is actually like, and also how stressy it can be. It's not really about having a lot of fun tweaking stuff at the movie theater at all. It's a much tougher and at times more nervewrecking job than you think.

If you are really interested in trying that, you probably shouldn't present yourself in that "I came, saw, and tweaked" manner. A company of that size will probably bring in some of their most experienced people, especially when it is a "new flagship" opening, and if so, that might be a good opportunity to learn the job from such experienced people - and from scratch.

You should stress your willingness to learn and illustrate why you think you are a good learner rather than that you have a lot of time on your hands to drive around and tell cinemas how much their presentation sucks. The most important quality in a projectionist is reliability, a knack for doing things the right way, not by somehow fumbling around, because it's not that difficult, but there is little room or time for error.

BTW, I heard that Marcus are putting in a lot of digital. There isn't much more projectionist work involved in that, mostly editing playlists and pressing "play". You may think you know how to "tweak" a digital projector because after all, it's just somehow a big DLP projector like at home, but it really isn't, and there is next to nothing for you to tweak there without the proper training and equipment.
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-28-2007, 10:00 PM:
 
Hi, Mark! Honestly, if it were me hiring, the home theatre blurbs wouldn't mean much, if anything - and might even be a detractor. Home theatre and motion picture sound/projection are entirely different things. Different standards, equipment, practices, etc.

I'm also in complete agreement with Brad re: the implication of tinkering. It shouldn't take "endless hours" to set something up properly. Working "by ear," so to speak, does not go well with professional projection - there's too much of that problem in theatres already.

Go with your enthusiasm for the job and what familiarity with the business that you've garnered here. I don't know anything about the Marcus circuit, but the fact that you have absolutely no experience in the booth might be exactly what they're looking for.

Good luck!
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 02-28-2007, 11:10 PM:
 
To Michael... I'm sorry if that somehow came across as being a know-it-all, but I did mention several times that I have no projectionist experience and how I'm totally willing to be trained, even if it means joining the union. I'm not under any false impressions here, I read this site, I know working in a projection booth isn't just throwing the film on, hoping it somehow threads itself and then playing with the focus... it sounds like that's the impression you got from me. I know it's hard work, and I'm up for it. I hate to feel like I must defend myself when I'm asking for advice here, but to be honest your response feels a bit aggressive. If the image looks a bit fuzzy our the audio sounds "off" I'm not going to start pushing buttons and adjusting things - that'd be a quick way to get fired. But on that same note, I think a lot of theaters don't have any people with "the eye" for these things, or even the will to care about them. Hell, during all of "Smokin Aces" at a local theater, you could see what's supposed to be on the bottom of the frame at the top of the screen. That doesn't even take someone with the eye, that just takes someone who cares a little about doing their job. Same goes for when the projector is improperly aimed, it doesn't take a genius to notice the picture is a foot off the screen, yet I see it all the time.

quote: Michael Schaffer
You may think you know how to "tweak" a digital projector because after all, it's just somehow a big DLP projector like at home, but it really isn't, and there is next to nothing for you to tweak there without the proper training and equipment.
And once again drawing wild conclusions from my post. I appreciate the nuggets of advice in your response, I really do. But if that's the attitude this forum is going to have towards people interested in getting into the industry, I just might go back to lurking to avoid attacks like that.

I think I'd be coming into this job with a base of knowledge and interest that's generally a lot more than most people who are offered the job, especially the ones who get promoted from buttering popcorn (not to be dissing them, I'm sure they're reliable employees and that's the reason)... and that is what I want to highlight in the interview. I think those things I mentioned all speak to that - and not how I'm going to ignore training and start pushing buttons... that's not where I'm trying to go with that at all.

quote: Michael Schaffer
rather than that you have a lot of time on your hands to drive around and tell cinemas how much their presentation sucks.
I'll always find time for that. [thumbsup]

quote: Tim Reed
Go with your enthusiasm for the job and what familiarity with the business that you've garnered here. I don't know anything about the Marcus circuit, but the fact that you have absolutely no experience in the booth might be exactly what they're looking for.
Thank you! I'll definitely be doing that.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-28-2007, 11:49 PM:
 
Michael did not attack you. He answered your question in a straightforward manner and gave solid advice. If you think that is an attack and have taken any sort of offense to it, you just won't last in a theater as a projectionist. You've just got to be a little more thick-skinned for this sort of position because just WAIT until something goes wrong and you have a manager breathing down your neck because you couldn't fix the problem in 5 seconds and he is getting chewed out by the customers and the company is having to hand out refunds to 400 people. Like it was stated above it CAN and often is a stressful job to newbies and even some seasoned projectionists. You just have to be able to remain calm, keep your head on straight and do the job while remembering you may have another dozen screens all waiting for on you at the same time. (How many screens is this place?)

Anyway, don't sweat it. That's the no-bs truth you were seeking and will find in abundance on this site. [Wink]
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-28-2007, 11:59 PM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
I hate to feel like I must defend myself when I'm asking for advice here, but to be honest your response feels a bit aggressive.
Sorry, I misread your post. I thought it said you were 22, but now I see you are only 12.

If you think that people giving you straightforward and unsugarcoated advice is "aggressive", then you have a lot of growing up still to do. Once you have done that, you will understand that if people actually take the time and write a detailed reply, they generally don't do that to be mean, but to help. It may not be what you wanted to hear. But life is hard.

That confirms my initial impression. It sounds great when you say you want to work hard and learn this job thoroughly, but your unwillingness to accept critical, yet well meant advice (good advice is typically critical, not what you want to hear, remember that) signals that you may not be that good at and eager to learn from what experienced people may have to tell you.

I have trained projectionists for many years and know the home theater enthusiast type who is usually very eloquent and enthusiastic in his proclamations as well but soon after he finds out what the daily grind - in a good movie theater - is like, he gives up and bails.

Speaking of bailing, at this point in the interview, you may also have to explain why it is that you haven't held any steady jobs or learnt any trades yet at your age (to them, not to me, I don't care).

You may think that you already know what the job is like because you have read a lot of posts here, but if you think that you can pick that up and know as well or even better than people who have actually been in that business for many years, that only confirms the impression of unteachable and unrealistic.

Mr Reed is totally right when he is says that they might actually be looking for "fresh" people they will have to train, because a lot of exhibitors prefer to train their people in their own way. A lot of people are badly trained, and "untraining" and retraining them is just too much hassle. But thinking one knows it all already is just as bad as being badly trained.

Best if you keep it simple and don't try to pretend to know more than you do, however much film-tech you have read. Just be yourself. They know what they want, and it may or may not be you. But it is always best if it is you, not an image of yourself you want to create.

[ 03-01-2007, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Michael Schaffer ]
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-01-2007, 12:02 AM:
 
And I appreciate the advice, I really do, I guess I didn't so much appreciate all of the jumping to conclusions. I suppose that's some of what happens in an interview, so it's good to scale that here, but to assume that I somehow think I won't need training when I even said it several times, kind of got to me.

To answer Brad, this place is going to have 16 screens, which includes two 72 ft wide "UltraScreens." So I think they'll have a pretty healthy-sized technical/projection staff... at least to start out with.
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-01-2007, 12:15 AM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
I guess I didn't so much appreciate all of the jumping to conclusions. I suppose that's some of what happens in an interview
That's basically *all* that happens in a job interview on that level. Everything you say can and will be used against you.

quote: Brad Miller
If you think that is an attack and have taken any sort of offense to it, you just won't last in a theater as a projectionist. You've just got to be a little more thick-skinned for this sort of position because just WAIT until something goes wrong and you have a manager breathing down your neck because you couldn't fix the problem in 5 seconds and he is getting chewed out by the customers and the company is having to hand out refunds to 400 people.
Oh yes, and isn't that what is the most fun about it? Working in the movie theater is generally pretty laid back and calm routine, and most of the time, you are left alone, but if shit starts hitting the fan, it comes in massive quantities from all sides, quicker than you can duck.
But that's fun, too, in a way, and very satisfying if you keep everything under control - usually the projectionist is (or at least should be) the only one not panicking - and save the day. Or at least the show.

Plus, working on the more technical side of things is a lot of fun, too, and highly interesting because this field involves so many different aspects, electrical, electronic, mechanical, optics, sound etcetc, but that can be very stressy and challenging too. Sometimes, and that happens a lot during the early years of learning, you just can't figure out a problem, and it takes a lot of determination and stamina to work through that. We have all spent all night at theaters trying to figure out problems, and sometimes these then turn out to be something easy we already knew but overlooked, something we should already have known but didn't, or something we just learnt by not giving up. But in any case, if you are frustrated easily, this may not be the right field for you.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-01-2007, 12:24 AM:
 
If it's a new theatre, it's likely that the equipment has not been installed by an idiot. Therefore, it probably doesn't need the attention of a person who has only a consumer's view of its performance level. Bottom line... Nobody wants to hear that their equipment needs to be "tinkered" with. Your challenge is to convince the owner that you can be a qualified operator of what's there right now.

Assume that a new booth will be top notch, or close to it. Since you don't have any experience connecting what you see as a consumer with the actual machinery producing those results, the worst thing you can do is portray yourself as (what Brad correctly calls) a tinkerer.

Assume you might be hired to work in a properly installed and adjusted booth. Your job is to operate the infrastructure to it's potential. That means properly threaded prints, framed correctly, started on time, focused at the start, and checked periodically. You shouldn't have to babysit volume levels, but you should know they're correct. If the environment is such that film cleaners are needed and/or available, you should know how to use them properly, and do so. You should be able to look at the screen, recognize any misadjustment or wandering in your lamphouse and bulb and be able to react to the situation as necessary. That could mean changing a bulb yourself. It could also mean just making the owner, manager or supervisor aware that there might be a problem, then letting them decide how to deal with it.

There's a lot more to this, and others will add the items that are important to them. For you, it's best that you drop any notion of expressing your ability to "finesse the details". If you worked for me, I'd assure you that my booth is set up the way I want it. I don't want to hear the observations of someone who needs real-life experience in the booth. If you were to start out by telling me all the things you think I needed to change, you probably wouldn't get the job. Keep your peace, get the job, learn the realities, and only then decide whether or when it's appropriate to offer your opinions. Be enthusiastic, but do the job the way the owner (or your supervisor) wants it done. Offer your opinion only after you've been there long enough that it means something. Then, it might work out for you.

Good luck!
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-01-2007, 12:40 AM:
 
quote: Michael Schaffer
Speaking of bailing, at this point in the interview, you may also have to explain why it is that you haven't held any steady jobs or learnt any trades yet at your age (to them, not to me, I don't care).
Not that it matters at all here, but you did bring it up... I hate school. I've hated school quite a bit since probably 4th or 5th grade. This is because I held absolutely no interest in most of the subjects we were forced to learn about. As soon as I escaped from high school, I was confident that the only way I'm going back is if it's to learn a trade that genuinely interests me. At this point those things would be film, video production, or radio broadcasting. Not the best schools in the Milwaukee area for those things. I haven't left the area, or needed to hold a steady job since my family has supported me. They're fine with supporting me because while being pretty well-off, I live with only my grandparents and mother, and without getting into too much detail, my mother has been disabled (mostly physically, but a bit mentally as well) ever since I was born, due to complications. I help around the house and help to take care of her... I have had no need for a job up until now.

Jack... thank your for the advice! I am curious however... when you speak of learning the realities of the booth, what issues are you referring to where I'd be offering my opinion on changes? Most of the problems I see in theaters are pretty glaring - soft or dull image due to incorrect focus or not enough cleaning (see... I'm not a projectionist, I don't know the exact causes yet), digital audio coming in and out or not present at all when it should be, improperly aimed projector. Heck, for all of the films at Horrorfest at the Marcus that recently closed to make way for this one, the top 1/6th of the image was completely missing. I complained twice on two different days, nothing ever happened. Is this stuff that hard to adjust for trained employees? I'm not exactly planning on suggesting they mix their audio levels differently within the first week I'm working there. [Smile]

Oh and one last thing. Since my job experience is so lean (like I said - just a part time computer tech job for about a year once), I thought I might be able to use my technical proclivity as a good way to stand out in the interview. Now that's starting to sound like at least partially a bad idea. What's good to include, and what's good to omit?
 
Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 03-01-2007, 01:41 AM:
 
Mark,
Good luck in the interview! My advice is just be yourself. If you get the job, go with an open mind and throw all the romantic thoughts of what a projectionist is out the window, because as someone said in a post, shit will hit the fan sooner or later up there and it probably won't be pretty. [Wink]
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-01-2007, 02:00 AM:
 
Well...in MY opinion, your a disaster waiting to be hired. Brad is right on when see's you as a potential tinkerer. If by some stretch of the imagination you DID get hired, and were shipped off somewhere to be trained, I see you as the type of person that would hear whats being taught, but you wouldn't LISTEN. You wouldn't heed good advice because you think you already know what the job is all about. You don't.

I've worked for Marcus, and several other companies. Marcus usually has a "promote from within" policy, whether projection is included in that rule, I dont know. I wish all theaters would start new hires on the ground floor shoveling popcorn and ripping tickets. Everyone should have to pay their dues. If you can do that for a year, THEN I'd beleive you have interest in theater work.

If you want my advice for your Marcus interview, say as little as possible, be agreeable, available and go in to the interview as if the job doesnt matter. In your first post, you sounded a little arrogant, like you KNOW what its all about..quite frankly, you don't, so you shouldn't pretend. If you were interviewing potential computer techs to work for you, and some guy came in and said he knows how to tweak his playstation 2 menus settings, would that qualify him to work with computers at all? Tell your interviewer that you'd love to work in the movie theater enviroment, and that you have a life long love of movies. Tell them that you have no problem working nights, weekends or holidays, in fact, you LOVE working weekends and holidays. Stay away from sounding professional as it relates to anything AV, you'll come off sounding arrogant and stupid all at the same time.

My 2 cents.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2007, 02:01 AM:
 
First things first...relax. Nobody wants to hire a nervous wreck to run their booth. If you are really nervous during an interview, how bad will you be during a crisis???

Some points that are pretty safe...
Be sure and dress nicely and speak clearly in the interview. Make eye contact, don't just stare at the floor and mumble.

And most importantly, do not even try to bullshit your way into the job! Trust me, they can smell that from miles away.

This is so timely I just have to post it here. Tuesday I was at a theater doing a service call when a manager came upstairs and asked if I would do an interview with some kid downstairs that had been begging and pleading to work the booth who supposedly had extensive projection experience. I reminded him that we already had a solid projection team and there was no extra room, to which he understood and agreed, but stressed that it was probably "the only way this kid will ever stop nagging me about it". So I agreed and up he came. I wish I had a video of it. No joke here, this is as close as I can remember the conversation:
quote:
Me: Hi you must be Max (extends hand)

Max: (halfway knods head staring at the ground)

Me: I am Brad, the technician (shakes hand a little more toward the ground)

Max: (notices hand and offers his...note this was the first instance of eye contact and it lasted about 1 second)

Me: So what is it that you are interested in?
(At this point do take note that Max only speaks in mumbles that were barely audible for the duration of this conversation.)
Max: Ummmm, well movie stuff you know.
Me: Like DVDs or what?
Max: (shrugs in an "I dunno" manner)
Me: So you like movies?
Max: Ummm, yeah I guess.
Me: Well that's great. So are you trying to say you are interested in working the projection booth?
Max: (I think this was the second time he glanced up and made eye contact.) Yeah the movies.

Me: Well that's good to hear. (Pauses just to see what this guy will say or do.)

Max: (Stares at ground and then after an uncomfortable silence looks over to the side where a film is running for a few seconds, then goes back to essentially studying my shoes.)

Me: So I understand you have projection experience?

Max: Yeah, ummm, back in (some state I don't recall).

Me: Good, so what kind of equipment did you work with?

Max: Ummm, well you know.

Me: No sorry, actually I don't know. What kind of projectors did you use?

Max: Ummmm, the movie kind.

Me: Great, we use those too! (Ok, ok, so at this point I am just being sarcastic, but seriously, this interview is getting old and wasting my time.) So what brand of projectors did you work with?

Max: Ummmm. (Still staring at ground.)

Me: Ok, so you don't remember the brand name, that's ok. What color were they and maybe I can figure it out by the color?

Max: Ummmm, I don't really remember.

Me: Ok, well forget that because they probably didn't have the same kind of equipment we have anyway. Look over there. Did you have those projectors or did you use something else?

Max: Ummm, I guess we used something else.

Me: Well, no problem. Do you know how to build film?

Max: Ummm, what?

Me: Every week when the new films arrive, they have to be assembled before they can be run. Did you ever assemble the films?

Max: Ummm, oh yeah.

Me: Great! So since there are many different ways of doing that, tell me this, let's say you have a 6 reel movie. How would you go about getting it off of the shipping reels and onto the platter?

Max: Ummm, well we never played any 6 reel movies. (I shit you not he said this!)

Me: Oh yeah? That's some weird bookings there. Ok well forget that, I'm sure you played 5 reel movies, right?

Max: Ummm, yeah we did.

Me: I figured. So how would you assemble THOSE movies?

Max: Ummm, I don't really know.

Me: So you never built new movies?

Max: Ummm, well there was always a manager present.

Me: So the manager actually built the movies and you never did?

Max: Ummm, no I did.

Me: Then what was the rough procedure that you used to assemble them?

Max: Ummm, the managers would do that.

Me: Ok so you DIDN'T ever build movies. So you just ran the booth then, threading and starting the movies?

Max: Ummm, yeah I guess.

Me: Ok that's fine, not everybody knows how to build movies. Did you ever break them down?

Max: Ummm, I dunno.

Me: Ok I am really confused now. Walk with me over here. Do you know what this contraption is called? (Pointing to a platter.)

Max: Ummmm.

Me: This thing, right here like 2 inches away from my finger.

Max: Ummm, I forgot what they are called.

Me: Ok, multiple choice. Is this is a platter, a film motivator or a cartridge feeder?

Max: Ummm, I really don't know we never used any of those.

Me: Oh ok, so did you have 2 projectors for every screen or just one?

Max: Ummm, huh?

Me: (Walks kid over to projector/lamphouse.) Did you have two of these for every auditorium or one?

Max: Ummm, just one.

Me: (Pointing back to the platter.) So you never used one of those film motivators?

Max: Ummm, ok I'm sorry. Yeah we had the motivators.

Me: So other than using film motivators, can you tell me ANYTHING else about the theater you worked at?

Max: Ummm, no I forgot. Sorry.

Me: How many screns did it have?

Max: Ummm, a bunch, I'm not sure.

Me: Do you even know the name of the theater?

Max: Oh yeah it was a Carmike blah-blah. (I forgot the exact Carmike theater, but it doesn't really matter since this kid clearly never worked the booth there.)

Me: So on a typical shift, how many movies were you able to watch?

Max: Ummm, just whichever ones I wanted to.

Me: Well yeah of course, but I mean roughly how many did you watch in a day? Or did you tire of watching the movies?

Max: Oh no I never got tired of watching them. I mean that's the job.

Me: Well that's just awesome. Unfortunately you aren't. Let me give you a big tip. In the future, don't ever try to bullshit your way into a job, because clearly you have never ran a projection booth or know the slightest thing about it. It is far more than watching movies. It might also interest you to know that there is no such thing as a film motivator and the average length movie is 6 reels. From the sound of things about the closest you have ever come to running a booth was walking into this one or maybe going into the Carmike projection room. Had you come in here and been honest with me regarding your knowledge you might have had a chance, but trying to fool me will guarantee that you never ever work upstairs.

Max: (Just stands there.)

Me: Sorry Max, but I am not going to waste your time or any more of mine. Go on back downstairs.

Max: (Just stands there!)

Me: I'm sure the manager is waiting for you downstairs.

So then he FINALLY leaves. Clearly this kid hasn't an ounce of brain activity going on. Regardless even if I had brought him up and trained him, the first time there was a problem, he was so soft-spoken that I couldn't possibly be able to hear him over the phone to talk him through a problem! This kid was the worst applicant I have ever seen. Don't be like him.

(Come to think of it, we should start a thread here on worst interview transcripts.)
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-01-2007, 02:38 AM:
 
Heh that was quite entertaining. Now I really hope I didn't come across like that here, because there's something wrong with my keyboard if I did.

Not that there's any way you could've known this, but I'm a pretty sociable guy, I'm generally quite straightforward and articulate with people. If I ever did try to BS my way through an interview (which I never would), I'd at least make eye contact and speak up. [Smile]
 
Posted by Alex Grueneberg (Member # 2652) on 03-01-2007, 03:08 AM:
 
Wow. And I thought I had it bad with the people they send up stairs "who have an interest" at my place.

Honestly my advice is just be open and modest, and show your interest in learning how a theater works. Take in as much of the experience as possible from the interview on. If projection doesn’t happen still try to get your foot in the door and perhaps show interest to start as a floor manager. Its a great way to get to know the booth workers, and show how reliable you can be.

Personally from my experience I started at a run down twined 2 plex as an usher and slowly showed my interest asking questions. Fast-forward a year and I was running the place up-stairs and down most nights. These days I work very hard to keep a 6 year old 18 plex at top notch or closest possible and sure odd things do happen, maybe some scope masking (adjustable curtain on either the sides or top the screen) drops down too far or you have to change a warn belt out on a projector (Christie) but there sure isn’t much tinkering. Maintaining quality is what the game is. Not to sound harsh but there is a lot of trying to keep up, keeping things in perspective and working closely as a team with your other operators. I believe one of the biggest issues with these larger complexes is one or two projectionists out of the pack basically sabotaging (not on purpose) everyone else’s hard work. Always keep that in mind. “Might this frustrate someone else?” Making adjustments right off the bat at especially new complexes might not be such a good idea and a great way to not start on the right foot with your tech. (Been there.) Also be prepared that you can't slack off for a day or take it easy and should have a continued positive outlook towards the job and treating every film as if it was your favorite. Most of all I hope you like cleaning and organizing things.

To add communication is key, and if you are to get trained remember to keep an open ear and respect your trainer. Time and time again people get sent up who I'm told have an interest yet while training seem off in another world as if I’m wasting their time (not as bad as Brad's case though!). With a flagship location like that you should be lucky and have seasoned trainer. Try not to interrupt with too many questions but know when to speak up if they go to fast over something or want to further understand why its so important that area be handled correctly. Interview wise all I can is like every one said, be professional and your self at the same time. A hybrid if you will, and don't give up if they want to start you on floor to see how you work. Projection is an honor and must be respected.

One good thing about the job is there’s always another theater that could use some love.

Good luck! [thumbsup]

Ps: read your projector manuals

[ 03-01-2007, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: Alex Grueneberg ]
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-01-2007, 03:24 AM:
 
Just show interest in the company, not in yourself.

Show that you can be a team player, not the guy that wants it all.

Sell yourself that you really mean what you say and be sincere- not just put on a front thinking that you know something and trying to impress..

Yes, good luck .. it's a tough world out there in this industry .. - Monte
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-01-2007, 06:44 AM:
 
Agreed with the others--show them that you are reliable and love movies and that you would like to help to make films look and sound their best.

This is where I point out that a brand-new first-run corporate multiplex is maybe _not_ the best place to learn the projectionist craft. Sure, you'd get to work with nice equipment that is (one would hope) properly installed and in good working order, but you won't get much experience in troubleshooting and fixing problems with balky equipment and dealing with beat-up prints that have to be made runnable because there is no alternative.

If you have the chance, go find a smaller, older second-run or art-house theatre with a good head operator. Those sorts of places seem to produce better projectionists because they force one to deal with oddball formats and damaged prints and to learn how to keep the show on the screen in the face of many difficulties. Then, go to work at a multiplex with good equipment and a service contract and everything will seem easy. You'll also have an appreciation for the importance of keeping prints in good condition for the next theatre, and will know what to do when there is a theatre rental and an Academy-ratio mono print shows up on cores with missing leaders (which is the sort of thing that most mulitplex operators don't see regularly and probably wouldn't know what to do with).

I've learned so much just by working in different types of venues with different types of equipment and by knowing some very talented operators and technicians. This is a part time job/hobby for me, but working in many different places helps to keep the job from becoming stale and boring.

quote: Frank Dubrois
I wish all theaters would start new hires on the ground floor shoveling popcorn and ripping tickets. Everyone should have to pay their dues. If you can do that for a year, THEN I'd beleive you have interest in theater work.
Are you saying that you'd hire a popcorn kid before you would hire Brad (or anyone else with years of experience and the knowledge, ability, and desire to do the job properly)? That's crazy. Does that mean that the theatre's accountants should start by shoveling popcorn, too? All of those jobs require different skills and knowledge. Concession employees need to be clean and have good customer-service and cash-handling skills. Accountants need to be detail-oriented and understand balance sheets and income statements. Projectionists need to have good mechanical and electronics skills and have a sense of showmanship. I suspect that few people have all of those skills and could do all of those jobs well.
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-01-2007, 07:37 AM:
 
Scott was a prodigy, though. He's got a frickin' photographic memory or somethin'. [Wink] Before he even decided to get a projectionist job, not that long ago, I swear he already knew more about this stuff than I did (and I started when I was 12...plus I'm a service tech)! I've never seen anything like it.

But considering all that, he was (and remains) modest and this business is purely a hobby for him. You would do well to go in with such an attitude.

He will vehemently deny it, but I still think he knows more than I do. [Razz]

BRAD... "film motivator"! ROFL!!! [Big Grin] How did you keep a straight face?!
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-01-2007, 09:00 AM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
when you speak of learning the realities of the booth, what issues are you referring to where I'd be offering my opinion on changes?
It's mainly the fact that many theatres are not run badly because they have bad projectionists, but are that way because the owners don't see the booth as a high priority. They don't recognize they have a problem (or don't care), and are not looking for someone to tell them they have problems... especially not before you've got the job and have worked there awhile and have built credibility.

It's a topic that crops up a lot around here. Check out the archives. It's pretty good reading. In terms of priorities, most here would start with the booth (including a well-qualified/paid operator) and work down, while many of today's owners start at the snack bar and work their way up.
 
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-01-2007, 10:17 AM:
 
Lots of good advice from everyone, so I'll just add a little. Remember that your job as a projectionist in a multi-plex really comes down to being able to do the same thing over and over, in exactly the same way and do it right everytime. As was mentioned earlier, you will be dealing with new equipment that (one hopes) is properly installed so won't break often, so you won't get many chances to learn about trouble shooting--except when you screw up (and you will, we all have).

If you develop a reputation as the guy who does things right, maybe the tech guys will want you there when they are doing service calls, and then you can learn. It is like working in a resturant kitchen, you don't get to be chef until you've spent years on the prep line. And if you are taught wrong, or learn wrong, it can take years to overcome.
 
Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 03-01-2007, 10:35 AM:
 
Keep in mind that most interviews are to see if you are potentially a personality "fit".

Skills and knowledge can be found in an application or resume, and verified in an interview. Often the person that asks more questions about the position, and the company, and particular location (within reason) will make for a better interview than someone who as all the knowlege in the world.

Keep in mind customer service is #1 in any field. As a projectionist the interaction with the paying public is minimized, but the management team is YOUR customer.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-01-2007, 01:00 PM:
 
quote: Scott Norwood
Are you saying that you'd hire a popcorn kid before you would hire Brad (or anyone else with years of experience and the knowledge, ability, and desire to do the job properly)? That's crazy. Does that mean that the theatre's accountants should start by shoveling popcorn, too?
Well, no. Brad obviously has booth experience. I was meaning NEW hires. NO theater experience at all. There are plenty of people (not just kids) that work downstairs that would love to get a shot upstairs. Why hire someone with NO theater experience at all when you have employees that have been in the biz and at least know whats going on. Just because someone can re-install windows or install a video card into a computer, doesn't qualify them to be a projectionist does it? As far as the "higher ups" shoveling popcorn or working a usher shift..why not? Maybe that way, some of these larger corporations would make such bad decisions. Why not bring a regional manager into the booth for a shift and show him WHY parts are needed, or WHY good projectionist training is essential. Show them a bad dirty print, then show them a print that has been cleaned. Let THEM deal with pissed off customers when the sound drops out, or the bulb goes out during a presentation. I absolutely believe that only something GOOD can come of ALL theater employees working a few shifts downstairs and being shown what goes on upstairs. It builds appreciation.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2007, 01:26 PM:
 
I agree with Frank, if I have two kids that are both the same age and both appear to be equally qualified in terms of eagerness to learn, etc, I would go with the one that has already worked downstairs. Some people would prefer to do that because they view it as someone they could "yank" from the booth every once in awhile to cover a concession shift or something, but I view it more as someone who has already proven to the company that they will be there on time every day, with a good attitude, who can take care of the equipment and not abuse it (concession and box office items have enough of this to prove that point) and also someone who understands how starting a movie late will affect the cleaning time for the next show and just how abusive angry customers can be when something goes wrong. Experiencing that first hand DOES give them the advantage over somebody who has never worked the floor before.

As far as the film motivator, that's just an old Star Wars joke between some friends of mine. Ever notice how when something breaks in a Star Wars movie it always seems to be the motivator? "Uncle Owen, this R2 unit has a bad motivator, come look." I just happen to be someone who can keep a straight face on command even if I am laughing inside. What was that word Randy Stankey used?
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-01-2007, 03:03 PM:
 
quote: Martin McCaffery
Remember that your job as a projectionist in a multi-plex really comes down to being able to do the same thing over and over, in exactly the same way and do it right everytime.
In my experience it was a weird combination of that and keeping a level head and responding sensibly when the shit starts flying too fast to duck, as Michael says. Sometimes it's a routine, monotonous job; at others you're under a lot of pressure. If it's 10pm on a Thursday night and you've got four prints to take down in time for a midnight collection, you've both got to meet that deadline and pack off the prints without scratching any of them. You learn how to do it by doing it time and time again when you're not under high pressure, so that when you are, you keep a level head and get the job done.

The same applies to emergencies. My first 'in at the deep end' experience was only my second day I'd worked unsupervised as the only projectionist in the building. It was the opening night of Jurassic Park, and all 904 seats had been sold for the early house. Timed the CD to finish on cue ... lights down ... tabs open ... open dowser; picture is bang in rack, pin-sharp focus ... no sound.

After the minor heart attack which followed, I basically just checked everything I could think of, in a blind panic and no particular order. This was an independent house: the company we had a technical support contract with was 200 miles away, and the cost of getting them out plus 904 refunds would have been a financial disaster for the owner.

The problem turned out to be that the internal fuse in the transformer which powered the exciter bulb had blown. In the absence of a spare I shorted the contacts with a bit of kitchen foil, which got us through the evening. It took me 20 minutes of panic to find the problem, though; and about the first thing I did after recovering was to make a checklist of things to check in the event of a sound failure in future. If it happened again, I'd go through them one by one. When the chief came back from leave, he liked the list and added several other things to it - which, if they'd been the culprit that night, I would never have found.

To sum up, the two most important things I'd look for in a trainee are the ability to work reliably and consistently in normal circumstances, and respond systematically, do the right things and not do anything stupid when the shit hits the fan. When I later had to rescue situations caused by inexperienced projectionists it wasn't really the inexperience which caused the problem, but making a stupid mistake which would probably have been prevented by stopping and thinking. In a projection booth there are all sorts of seemingly minor mistakes which can cause major, serious problems.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-01-2007, 06:55 PM:
 
Drugs!?
 
Posted by Bastiaan Fleerkate (Member # 3826) on 03-01-2007, 06:57 PM:
 
In my opinion you’re the type of man that loves to go to the cinema to watch a movie (or set up the DLP beamer in your home for hours). This is good if you want to work with your home-cinema set or setting up a beamer in a professional way.

The love to see movies doesn’t fit in well with being a projectionist. Don’t understand me wrong, you can see many movies, but you will get tired of watching them, and you will have more things to do, then only looking at one movie. There are more projectors en auditoriums to be served and you will never have the time to watch something.

Before I got a job in a cinema at the age of 18 (a 1 screen cinema in Woerden, The Netherlands. Philips FP5 pre 1950 projectors!) I had seen 4 movies in a cinema. Because it was a 1 screen cinema I did get to see more movies. I was jammed between two projectors and the make-up table in a room 2 by 4 meters, not the best place. If you want to see films it is better to buy a ticket then to be a projectionist.

Now I work in a 2 screen theatre in Woerden (age 22!) (2 vic 5’s and much more room) and there are much more films to be showed. Occasionally I see a movie when I’m pre-screening one. In the time I work in this cinema I have seen 4 movies as a customer and that is it.

All I want to say is:
Being a projectionist is not about seeing movies, it’s about showing movies to people who enjoy watching movies.

Last I want to say. In our cinema I always chat with the customers. They come with output and I usually do something with it. Many people have helped me fixing problems with sound and other items. And those people never heard of film-tech or where aware of the face that a man was standing in a booth starting up the projector. We get this remark often: “O, I thought you showed the movie from a DVD.” Or something similar. We let those people see the booth and they leave with a smile… (and 24 frames of film).

If I’m wrong you can leave al this behind you, but for other people who want to work in a cinema and are movie seeing type. DON”T APPLY FOR A JOB IN A CINEMA. It sounds great, but you will see less movies instead.

Bastiaan Fleerkate (AnnexCinema, Woerden, The Netherlands) o, I’m Dutch so the grammar isn’t that good, I know….
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-01-2007, 11:17 PM:
 
I do enjoy watching movies and the whole cinema experience, but it seems lately I don't dedicate much time to the whole "experience" of that anyways. Lately I've become much more selective with the movies I take the time to go out and see or screen at my house. I do however think I might have at least a sliver of showmanship in me. I love having a big group over, dimming the lights, popping in my HD-DVD trailer disc (converted from the QuickTime site and kept in full 1920x1080 with 5.1 intact if it's in the source), showing them the latest trailers... hand-picked of course, so there's no stinkers in there... and then onto the movie - sometimes throwing a Dolby sound trailer into the mix.

Still, it's home cinema, I won't dare make that comparison again here, but maybe that helps you understand my personality more.

I'd also like to genuinely thank everyone for all the advice given here. A few misunderstandings and surprising yet helpful responses later, I think I've got a better shot at this. Thank you!

(Something I just remembered... back in the day, when VHS was still popular and I was a lot younger... I would record the trailers off of either Coming Attractions on E!, or from the Pay-Per-View channel when they'd feed the trailers to the local cable companies on a weekly basis... and edit those onto tapes before other movies, which I'd show friends and family. Perhaps I do have a bit of showmanship in me.)
 
Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-01-2007, 11:43 PM:
 
quote:
Drugs!?
Louis are you offering? I never thought you were the type to do that sort of thing!!! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 03-02-2007, 12:41 AM:
 
quote: Scott Norwood
Are you saying that you'd hire a popcorn kid before you would hire Brad (or anyone else with years of experience and the knowledge, ability, and desire to do the job properly)? That's crazy. Does that mean that the theatre's accountants should start by shoveling popcorn, too? All of those jobs require different skills and knowledge. Concession employees need to be clean and have good customer-service and cash-handling skills. Accountants need to be detail-oriented and understand balance sheets and income statements. Projectionists need to have good mechanical and electronics skills and have a sense of showmanship. I suspect that few people have all of those skills and could do all of those jobs well.
And someone who could do several of those jobs well might well be able to find more lucrative work somewhere outside of the theater business.

I also think that a few years of experience at any job changes a person's perspective on life, work, etc vs what it is when someone has only been a student and not an employee.

Not having that experience may make finding a job a little more difficult; then again, I think people at any level of experience tend to have multiple interviews before they find the right job.

I do agree that a flagship theater may not be the most likely place to find a projectionist's first projection job.
 
Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 03-02-2007, 01:27 AM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
To answer Brad, this place is going to have 16 screens, which includes two 72 ft wide "UltraScreens." So I think they'll have a pretty healthy-sized technical/projection staff... at least to start out with.
That is a massive assumption. You'll probably have two operators and a tech on if lucky, which should be the minimum for that size of cinema. Could be unlucky and have to do the entire site alone after training. You have to work constantly in a large multiplex regardless, especially if you have poor floor staff and are solely responsbile for monitoring the picture/sound quality.

If you want my advice, you're not going to get anything out of wanting to go straight into projection. I don't know anyone who did that in the UK. You should take a part-time job downstairs first. If you are good at that and display an interest in projection you will get moved upstairs eventually. You need to be aware of film beyond just watching a movie, and understand the routine of the cinema and the different positions, something which you are mostly isolated from in projection. Your CV needs building as well, no-one is going to trust someone with a high school reference only on machines that can cost near $100k for DLP.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-02-2007, 01:33 AM:
 
quote:
I'd also like to genuinely thank everyone for all the advice given here. A few misunderstandings and surprising yet helpful responses later, I think I've got a better shot at this. Thank you!
Perhaps you should look into Best Buy or a store that sells Home A/V equipments. You might actually be happier there. If you have a love for high end equipment and LOVE to talk about it, I think you'd make a better salesperson than projectionist. What you WANT to do and what you have a PASSION for, seem to be slightly different. I'm kind of getting the feeling that others may see that also. If I ran a retail store that sold high end computers and AV equipment, I'd consider hiring you, but nothing I've seen would make me want to hire you in a movie theater. We have ushers and projectionists that love movies too...they end up in the auditorium WATCHING the movies instead of working. I seriously think you should look into selling AV home theater equipment.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-02-2007, 08:59 AM:
 
I understand where that's coming from (believe it or not I've heard it from others [Smile] ), but that doesn't interest me. Yes I enjoy rambling on about home theater equipment and working on my system at home to get it as nice as possible, but the idea of being a salesperson (or home installer), especially at a "big box" store, really turns me off. These days I hold the same amount of interest in movie theater technology, and I can ramble about that (to the degree I know it) to people just as much.
 
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-02-2007, 03:09 PM:
 
I'm actually surprised that they're hiring for the booth at the Majestic, instead of using existing employees, especially in the beginning. Marcus has been very mum about their digital cinema rollout plans, but I would certainly hope that at least a couple of the screens there will be DCinema-equipped.

Many of the comments here are sage advice, and even though they aren't what you want to hear, take them in the spirit in which they are meant. You are being given gifts of advice from people who have been on the job, and that's gold for someone truly interested in learning.

The comments about the long hours and the dedication to the job are key, IMO. If you truly love the industry, and your primary goal is to serve the customer, then you should be willing to take any job at a theater that is offered to you. Being a popcorn jockey is one step closer to the booth than a paying customer. Take a "shut up and learn" stance, do your job with vigor and dedication, and know your place. When you gain the credibility of time served, excellent performance, and the ability to get along with people that you work with and that you serve, you'll be in a much better position to move up to the booth.

You may be fortunate enough to get that booth job, but don't be surprised if you're expected to pull shifts on the floor as well. Your age and lack of experience is working against you, so compensate for that by being an asset that the manager can count on.

Take all of my comments with the grain of salt that I've never worked in a theater, so I may not know what I'm talking about as it exactly pertains to a theater, but I've hired and fired people and managed a team. It's a lot about personality; whether you'll fit in with the others on the team, and if you'll have the dedication to do a decent job and you're willing to learn.

Here's a story you might appreciate. When the Capitol Cinemas opened in Pewaukee, I had the opportunity to get to know the manager and the projectionist there. I watched one guy manage 12 screens of movies all by himself. He seemed to have a sixth-sense about what was happening on each screen and when each projector needed attention. When going to movies there, I would often look back at the booth at the beginning of the movie, and he'd be there adjusting things to make sure that the presentation was as good as possible.

I gained a huge appreciation for what projectionists do, and even though I still rail against bad presentations, I try to temper that with the realization that these guys don't always have the resources or the support they need to do everything perfectly.

You would be making a huge mistake even mentioning booth-related faults in an interview. There's a good chance you'll come off as an arrogant prick and you'll blow the interview right there. (I'm not saying you are one, just that you may be perceived as one during the interview by someone who won't give you the chance to explain yourself or get to know you better)

If you don't get the booth right away, don't sweat it. Working the floor is your chance to be in the right place at the right time. Modesty is key, and dedication to your job will take you places.

Good luck!
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-02-2007, 04:08 PM:
 
Thank you Scott!

I just got back from the interview (with another Scott, the manager, I believe), and it went really well! Believe it or not he was made aware of my asking questions on this site, so I think that might have shown that I have a true interest in this.

He explained that this theater is going to be more like an upscale hotel, with the floor staff being very friendly and willing to bend over backwards for the customer. He said he'll probably want to start me off as an usher, and then I can work up to being a projectionist, which I'm totally fine with... but he's definitely aware of my desire to start training in that as soon as I can.

He was quite friendly, and we seemed to get along great. (He also dropped the hint that I will in fact be hearing back from him about this, which I think is always good to hear in an interview.)

Thanks again to everyone here!
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-03-2007, 01:12 AM:
 
Of course you'll hear back from him regarding ushering. Anyone who hints at wanting to be a long-term employee is a plus. Whether he'll get you to the booth or not is another question. Don't be surprised if Marcus goes union with the booth.

quote: Mark Strube
with the floor staff being very friendly and willing to bend over backwards for the customer.
[Wink] Yeah right...time for a reality check. He can HOPE for that, and he can TRY for that, but I doubt (even if he achieves that) it will last.
 
Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 03-03-2007, 08:10 AM:
 
"Don't be surprised if Marcus goes union with the booth."

Is there really hope these days? I thought the projection side of the IA was all but dead.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-03-2007, 02:58 PM:
 
Usually theaters with more than 10 screens in a major metro area get hit up by the union.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-03-2007, 03:44 PM:
 
I have no idea how they work, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm totally willing to go through the required training to be a member of the union.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-04-2007, 01:15 AM:
 
Union projectionists usually pay pretty well, but I don't think you apply at the theater for that. Usually you have to check with the union and THEY hire you and put you where they want. Better ask around. Call Marcus Corporate office.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-04-2007, 02:16 AM:
 
Yea, find a Union Rep in your area and get the skinnies on how to join....and plan on paying quarterly dues if you do get in.

(not to mean to drift this towards the IA thing ... since I was a local pres at one time....)

What I thought too - that the IA was all but dead the projection field, but I guess a lot of stage hands are still IA members in big cities...
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-04-2007, 10:05 AM:
 
Milwaukee Operator's Local 164 is showing as an active local...
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-04-2007, 11:01 AM:
 
I just asked my friend who worked at the Marcus Ridge for over 3 years (Marcus's largest Wisconsin theater with 20 screens), and he was also a projectionist there for a few months (he quit for another job, wasn't fired or anything)... he said never had to join a union, and that nobody there was a member.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-04-2007, 12:26 PM:
 
Marcus is only union in Illinois as far as I know although they may also be union in Madison. Everywhere else.... nope.

Mark
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-04-2007, 05:58 PM:
 
I'm pretty sure the union is dead here in Denver. Their last real mainstay was at Mann Theaters where they were techs and did not run film. A new company came in and bought the Denver Manns and crushed the union. Haven't heard about them since.
 
Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-04-2007, 10:20 PM:
 
Zero work experience, hated school. Difficulty with school often means difficulty taking direction or orders along with frustration in dealing with people. Not needing the job also gives you too much freedom to walk out or do a poor job because you have nothing to lose. I wouldn't hire you. Too much risk.
 
Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 03-04-2007, 10:35 PM:
 
Anyone whose only motivation for doing a job is that they need the money is going to do a worse job than someone who actually cares about what they're doing. Some people both need money and love what they do, of course. But why would someone who doesn't need the money seek a job that they didn't love?

Some managers manage by fear, and others by positive example, and it seems to me that the former group might be more likely to be concerned about an employee who doesn't actually need the money.

Someone who has difficulty taking direction/orders might fit best in an environment with more room for creativity than a movie theater, however. (But I really don't know enough to have an opinion about whether Mark has difficulty taking direction/orders.)
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-04-2007, 11:30 PM:
 
quote: Bill Enos
Zero work experience, hated school. Difficulty with school often means difficulty taking direction or orders along with frustration in dealing with people. Not needing the job also gives you too much freedom to walk out or do a poor job because you have nothing to lose. I wouldn't hire you. Too much risk.
Zero work experience? I was a part time tech at a catering company for about a year, which also meant answering phones, and taking both food orders, and orders from my boss. If you read more carefully you'll notice my difficulty with school was because of most of the subject matter, not because of "authority." I was quite well liked by both the teachers and the students, I am a people person... but my grades were another story.

This forum really likes to put words into people's mouths. Wow. When did I say I don't need this job? I didn't need a job UP UNTIL NOW.

In fact, that entire response is based upon taking one fact from what I wrote here (school), building upon it with huge assumptions, and then completely making something up (not needing the job)... very nice. Thanks!

Just for clarity's sake...

quote: Mark Strube
But, there's that problem of having absolutely no experience being a projectionist, and my only "real" job reference at the age of 22 is working as a part-time tech guy at a local catering company for about a year.
Now read carefully please...

quote:
I hate school. I've hated school quite a bit since probably 4th or 5th grade. This is because I held absolutely no interest in most of the subjects we were forced to learn about. As soon as I escaped from high school, I was confident that the only way I'm going back is if it's to learn a trade that genuinely interests me. At this point those things would be film, video production, or radio broadcasting. Not the best schools in the Milwaukee area for those things. I haven't left the area, or needed to hold a steady job since my family has supported me. They're fine with supporting me because while being pretty well-off, I live with only my grandparents and mother, and without getting into too much detail, my mother has been disabled (mostly physically, but a bit mentally as well) ever since I was born, due to complications. I help around the house and help to take care of her... I have had no need for a job up until now.

 
Posted by Alex Grueneberg (Member # 2652) on 03-05-2007, 02:41 AM:
 
If you have passion for the job and master the basics you'll do great.

I think i'm outta here. See ya film-tech.

[ 03-06-2007, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Alex Grueneberg ]
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-05-2007, 03:31 AM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
I was a part time tech at a catering company for about a year, which also meant answering phones, and taking both food orders
How is answering the phone to take food orders being a "tech"?
 
Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 03-05-2007, 10:08 AM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
I was confident that the only way I'm going back is if it's to learn a trade that genuinely interests me.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but at 22 years of age I'd be looking for a trade that offers a whole lot more future than running projectors. Just read the posts about the coming of video and the demise of film. You think these guys are happy with the changes taking place in their industry? Those who adapt will survive, those who won't will not fare so well. Get your butt back in school and get some certification, be it a degree, a certificate or something else. Plan for the future, not for the moment!
 
Posted by Christopher Meredith (Member # 3767) on 03-05-2007, 10:34 AM:
 
^^^

What he said. I'm looking into going back to school for this very reason. I love what I do, working with projectors, making film look great. But there will not be much of need for this very much longer and I hate theater management. So...
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-05-2007, 11:09 AM:
 
quote: Michael Schaffer
How is answering the phone to take food orders being a "tech"?
Notice the word "also" in my quote. I set up their network, application and database sharing, kept it all in working order, did some nauseatingly long hours of data entry, built their website... anything computer-related that they needed done, which is a lot more than you'd think at a busy catering place.

Done picking me apart now? I can't believe how negative a lot of you are towards someone interested in the industry.
 
Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 03-05-2007, 11:34 AM:
 
I think I'll chime in here.

Very few people on this forum are familiar with my abilities, or lack thereof. I haven't seen a need to contribute to many threads due to the habitual razzing and criticizing that happens when one does offer advice, even if that advice wasn't worded perfectly, or there may be a better method of solving problem than one states.

So many assumptions on someone's character simply based on how they carry themselves on a forum, and very unwilling to accept anyone with less than stellar history, or someone who likes to tinker.

Although I can agree with the "tinkerer" point that many people tried to make, and how dangerous it can be, I wouldn't assume that Mark is a tinkerer. He came here looking for advice on how to best present himself and his abilities to a prospective employer. He was met with insulting and degrading responses from many people, and I have no idea why. Even after all of the negative responses, he maintained his composure and continue to respond in a more respectful manner than some.

I too struggled in school, and survived. Did it make me a crappy employee? I don't believe it did. But, there were many aspects of my attitude and personality that required maturing. We all require maturing, and the only way is to mature by experience.

Give the guy a break. I see a lot of passion and drive, and a lot of potential in Mark's posts.

Mark, I encourage you to continue to try and learn as much as you can. Only experience will put you at the top, and how will you gain that without starting out at the bottom?

Good luck to you.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-05-2007, 01:05 PM:
 
Thank you very much Tristan.
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-05-2007, 01:36 PM:
 
The best advice is often brutally honest advice. The kind of shoulder patting given by Mr Lane is certainly well meant, but doesn't really give the advice seeker any real information with substance, apart from a brief morale boost.

But the advice seeker here is not a 16-year old girl needing some encouragement to take part in a cheerleading contest, but (hopefully) an adult planning to enter a profession with proclaimed long-term goals. The greatest favor one can do him is tell him the truth without any sugarcoating, and point out to him where he might have wrong expectations and ideas.

Anybody asking for advice on how to present himself in an interview should be prepared for really critical advice and the more critical, the better, in the candidate's own best interest. The advice seeker should also be prepared to listen to and accept advice from people who have workd in that particular area for many years, otherwise, it is just a futile exercise and waste of time. Plus it shows that he isn't really prepared or simply not able to learn from the start.
But it appears that Mr Strube actually listened to some of the advice offered here, after some initial emotional resistance, and it appears that it has given him a clearer picture of what's going on. It may also have helped him present himself in a better way than he would have initially.

Sometimes, or actually very often, a kick in the butt is more valuable than a big bear hug. Life is hard, but listening to hard advice is much easier than going into something with unrealistic expectations.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-05-2007, 03:08 PM:
 
Mark, you made your original post for a reason. What was it? It was to get advice. We have all gave you our opinion. Largely, most of us simply don't think your a right fit for projection. It doesn't seem like you want to listen to the advice your given.

quote: Mark Strube
part time tech at a catering company for about a year, which also meant answering phones, and taking both food orders, and orders from my boss.
Oh yes, PLEASE come project for us. When your done starting your movies, I'll take a large Pepsi and an order of Nachos. [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-05-2007, 04:05 PM:
 
Excuse me? Did the fact that I'd love to be trained, which I've mentioned many times, mean nothing to you? I suppose you were born with your great projection knowledge, eh? This is turning into personal insults and I'm all but done on this site.

There's some good advice I got from this thread, but it's been overtaken by jerky responses like Frank's above. Completely uncalled for.

I'm told I can't take orders because I have no job experiece (even though I already stated the experience I have)... I re-state that experience giving more detail into what that job required of me. Then I get a response, like the one above, telling me it has nothing to do with projection. Really? Thanks for that... I'm so stupid that I was under the impression that since I networked computers and took catering orders, I wouldn't need to be trained to be a projectionist... since that just makes so much sense.

To the few that provided useful advice, thank you. To the rest... good day. [fu]
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-05-2007, 05:42 PM:
 
Mark - don't take it personal. First, many's the time a point made on page 1 of a thread is all but forgotten by the time page 2 or 3 rolls around. Lots of people here are guilty of "posting without reading." This is sometimes because they are busy people and have limited computer time.

Next, remember that this is a site populated by professionals, many of whom have been in the projection business for 30 or more years and feel they are STILL learning, so don't take what they say lightly.

Go ahead and write this site off if you want, but there is more valuable information about projection here than you're likely to find anywhere else, and if you're ever having a vexing equipment problem, you can usually get an answer here within about 20 mintues...IF you play nice.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-05-2007, 05:57 PM:
 
Well, playing nice goes both ways. Just because you may be older than me with more experience in this field, doesn't give you a reason to be rude.

I realize you may feel the need to defend your own, but really... if someone's going to bother to insult me, they can at least bother to catch up on the thread.

If I get the job, I'll try not to get any nacho cheese on the film... although who doesn't like a good cheese platter?
 
Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 03-05-2007, 06:29 PM:
 
I cannot believe the way Mark has been treated by some on this site. We should be encouraging enthusiastic newcomers not slagging them off. Ok, he should not have used words like tinkering etc, but I am sure he knows that now. He admits he has no experience, but he is enthusiastic and willing to learn. Does that not sound like most of us when we first asked for a job?, so come on give the guy a break. Only Mark himself will find out whether he is suited for the job-If he isn't,at least he would have given it a shot. Mark! your computer knowledge WILL be beneficial, as a logical mind is needed in this kind of job and lets face it, its going to be all programming computers anyway in a few years. Just one word of advice if you do get a trainee's position, NEVER assume you know it all after only a few months and always respect and be willing to learn from those who have been in this business a long time. If you have that attitude and are willing to work hard for crap money, you should be ok. either way let us know how you get on, even if its not job you hoped it would be. Good luck. [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-05-2007, 06:31 PM:
 
Thank you, Tim. The manager actually mentioned to me that my networking experience will come in handy, since many of their projectors will soon be digital.
 
Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-06-2007, 03:05 AM:
 
Congratulations on getting your new job young man! Hopefully you will get a chance to work with film before it disappears. There is something special about it!
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-06-2007, 07:58 AM:
 
I don't think he got it yet...and I honestly don't think he will.

You need thicker skin than what you have Mark. If you can't take some honest answers and maybe a little kidding, then how will you react to people who complain to you about the projection? Will you be understanding and apologetic? OR will you be rude and arrogant looking down the end of your nose at these mere PEONS who know nothing about projection?

To be 100% honest, you really come off as seeming like you know all about projection because you can hear good sound or know when a picture is blurry. So what?!? You haven't given us anything here to even remotely beleive you know ANYTHING about the real world of projection. I DO encourage new comers and people who want to learn about projection, but not if they come in with an attitude like yours. Your all ready to blow off this site because of some honest answers...well, good luck to you, because without this site, you will truely be lost. This is your best source of info. These people that are cautiously welcoming you are the same people that will give you the answers you need to look good to your boss when something goes wrong. I think the Majestic deserves better than an arrogant kid like you for their first projectionist.
 
Posted by Christopher Meredith (Member # 3767) on 03-06-2007, 10:34 AM:
 
I don't think he's coming off as arrogant at all. And even though he has no experience actually working in a projection booth, I bet he knows more about good presentation than most of y'all did before you got your first theater job.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-06-2007, 12:22 PM:
 
quote: Frank Dubrois
OR will you be rude and arrogant looking down the end of your nose at these mere PEONS who know nothing about projection?
Ah, so like many of the replies in this thread. Right. Now at what point did I act like I know how to work a projection booth just because I know a good presentation when I see it?

quote: Frank Dubrois
So what?!? You haven't given us anything here to even remotely beleive you know ANYTHING about the real world of projection.
Do you think I'm here to learn about knitting? Why else would I be here? That's why I'd like to be trained my friend. At one point here I'm told they want a "blank slate" to train, who knows absolutely nothing about it (and I'm sure enthusiasm and interest in the job like mine can't hurt)... and then you write something like that. Which is it then?

quote: Frank Dubrois
I DO encourage new comers and people who want to learn about projection, but not if they come in with an attitude like yours.
If you consider only mentioning that I have a good amount of knowledge in home theater technology and not putting up with personal insults an "attitude," you're the one who needs thicker skin.

quote: Frank Dubrois
I think the Majestic deserves better than an arrogant kid like you for their first projectionist.
I'll probably be the 3rd or 4th. I'll be working my way up from the floor staff.

quote: Frank Dubrois
Your all ready to blow off this site because of some honest answers...well, good luck to you, because without this site, you will truely be lost. This is your best source of info.
Film-Tech hasn't been deleted from my bookmarks toolbar yet. But negative posts like yours are making me strongly consider either that, or turning into a lurker.
 
Posted by Alex Grueneberg (Member # 2652) on 03-06-2007, 02:43 PM:
 
Its not so much that some are going to blow off this site, but its the fact that whenever some good decision topic gets started up its bombarded with personal opinions and flaming and there is really no actual good discussion. I dont understand this site if members are not going to have mutual respect for people newer to the industry.

Because honestly guys. Its people like Mark I'd want in my booth, because I'm stuck with someone who just wants a paycheck and to get away from customers and do the bare minimum.

It'd be great if we had a forum to chat about the daily hurtles of projection, working with others, setting a new standard, as well as common threading chit-chat with specific projectors in a organized fashion. And I wish this were the place, but apparently its really not.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-06-2007, 03:10 PM:
 
quote: Alex Grueneberg
bombarded with personal opinions
Uh, if you don't want personal opinions there's not much point in having a forum at all.

To hopefully get back on track....Mark, when is your interview?
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-06-2007, 03:24 PM:
 
The interview was last Friday, and it went extremely well. The manager said I'd definitely be hearing from him (in that certain tone where you can tell they're very interested in hiring you). Call backs are this week sometime, didn't say when. Any ideas what that might involve?
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-06-2007, 04:11 PM:
 
quote: Alex Grueneberg
Because honestly guys. Its people like Mark I'd want in my booth, because I'm stuck with someone who just wants a paycheck and to get away from customers and do the bare minimum.
I've had that type in my booth. Adjusting things to his own personal standards. Tinkering and putzing around with stuff until he breaks it. You like the type? You can hire the type.

quote: Mark Strube
That's why I'd like to be trained my friend. At one point here I'm told they want a "blank slate" to train, who knows absolutely nothing about it
This is true, a TRUELY blank slate is good. A blank slate withing the organization (ground floor) is even better. YOU are not a blank slate. I think you went into this with many assumptions and preconceptions. I can't put my finger on it, but you simply come off as the type of person that will only learn the information he feels is pertinent to the job. We are just telling you what we know and what we feel. Those are our OPINIONS. You asked for them. you didn't put any restrictions on our opinions as to what you DO want to hear and what you dont. You either want to know what the job is all about or you don't. You couldnt come to a better place to find out, and you did, now your not happy. This site is populated with projectionists, managment, general workers, business owners and technicians (probably more, but just keeping the list short), so if you wanted the best, most honest opinions, this was the place to come. Sorry that the all of the opinions didn't conform to what you wanted to hear. Personally, if you have a passion for the job and want to do this long term, then I hope you get it, learn it, and make that a great movie experience for the patrons.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-06-2007, 04:25 PM:
 
In that case, you would never hire anyone who expresses any interest in putting on a great presentation, with any idea whatsoever of what a correctly focused image looks like, or what to listen for if there's issues with the sound system. If a lot of managers hire like you, that would explain a lot of the shitty presentations I consistently see around here.

I find it funny that you just posted this in another thread, while saying you'd not hire me since I'm so interested in a good presentation I might be a "tinker."

quote:
Hire as many crappy workers as you can, keep them for the summer, then fire them before they get a raise... We don't get good employees that care because corporate America doesnt care about quality, only the bottom line. One well trained, high quality, caring employee can do the work of 2 slackers, easily. You do the math. Obviously this cant be explained to accountants, but its truth.

 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-06-2007, 05:56 PM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
In that case, you would never hire anyone who expresses any interest in putting on a great presentation, with any idea whatsoever of what a correctly focused image looks like, or what to listen for if there's issues with the sound system. If a lot of managers hire like you, that would explain a lot of the shitty presentations I consistently see around here.
My point is, other than being a movie going customer, what the hell do you know about PUTTING ON a good presentation. NOTHING. A five year old can tell when a picture is out of focus, my guess is, at this point, the five year old would know about as much as you do as how to fix it. You come off thinking you know all about how to put on a great presentation...you know JACK. You know how to turn on your TV, put in a DVD, and turn on your stereo. Big deal. Dolby Digital and DTS are freakin MENU selections to you.....

As for the other post, you didn't understand, so I won't bother explaining.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-06-2007, 06:09 PM:
 
quote: Frank Dubrois
A five year old can tell when a picture is out of focus
Then I guess many of the local theaters are hiring three year olds.

quote: Frank Dubrois
OR will you be rude and arrogant looking down the end of your nose at these mere PEONS who know nothing about projection?
Take a look at your last post, and try to tell me that's not what you just did. I'll try not to laugh.

I think I've gone out of my way here to point out how much I care about a good presentation... at no point was I trying to convince you that means I know how to work the equipment, I've repeated my willingness to be trained ad nauseam, which is why I don't understand how you keep coming back to this ridiculous assumption for some reason. You're clearly looking for a fight, and I'm not going to satisfy you anymore.
 
Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 03-06-2007, 06:23 PM:
 
quote: Bill Enos
Difficulty with school often means difficulty taking direction or orders along with frustration in dealing with people.
With all due respect Mark, you refute every piece of advice you don't agree with. You could do well to LISTEN to what these guys are telling you and examine your own behavior at the same time. A little humility goes a long way; especially for someone new to the business. Film-techers will jump over backwards to help someone who shows a genuine interest and appreciation. However, with your tendency to argue every point you do nothing to win their respect. Instead you do everything to put them off. No one here wishes you ill will, but as I see it, they are getting tired of your whining. Grow up!

BTW, I hope you get the job so you can find out first hand what its really like.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-06-2007, 06:27 PM:
 
AMEN
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-06-2007, 06:29 PM:
 
So when someone who's never met me makes a judgment call about my character that I believe is wrong, and then I respond with what I believe is good evidence to the contrary... I'm whining and need to grow up. The great logic on this forum just never ends. I can't refute advice based on bad and/or wrong assumptions? Advice like that isn't even applicable or useful!

quote: Rick Raskin
Film-techers will jump over backwards to help someone who shows a genuine interest and appreciation.
Well I'm right here, and for the most part I don't see jumping over backwards... I see a bunch of grumpy projectionists/techs/managers giving me a list of reasons they don't believe I should be a projectionist (for the most part). I don't care if you think I should be a projectionist - I didn't ask that, did I? I have great interest in this and I'd hate to see how someone that's new but with only a mild interest gets treated on here. Then again, they probably would've never bothered finding the site in the first place.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-06-2007, 07:42 PM:
 
I don't really see any personal attacks in this thread. Someone asked for advice and was given plenty. It may not be what he wanted to hear, but it's all good advice nonetheless.

I, too, hope that the original poster gets the job. I would expect that one of two things will happen if he does: either a) he'll learn quickly, enjoy the work, and some theatre will be very lucky to have him or b) the job won't match his expectations and he'll get frustrated and quit (or get fired). No way to tell what will happen until he has a chance to try, though.

As for this comment:

quote: Mark Strube
The manager actually mentioned to me that my networking experience will come in handy, since many of their projectors will soon be digital.
Are you seriously planning to take on the responsibility for managing a high-end SAN and theatre-wide network for $10-15/hour (or whatever they are paying their projectionists)? If so, that's crazy, when a job with similar responsibilities in other industries will easily pay twice that (or more) and probably offer more interesting work and more opportunities for advancement.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-06-2007, 09:08 PM:
 
At least it would then be in an industry that interests me. Being a standard computer tech, the job I got a good taste of both at the catering place and freelance, doesn't interest me much. I don't think he was suggesting I be "in charge" of all of that... but in the case that I eventually got myself into that situation, I think by then I'd have enough leverage to either ask for a raise or work somewhere else.
 
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-06-2007, 10:38 PM:
 
Man, this is a rough room!
 
Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 03-06-2007, 10:46 PM:
 
quote: Frank Dubrois
My point is, other than being a movie going customer, what the hell do you know about PUTTING ON a good presentation. NOTHING.
I know plenty of booth ops that still don't know how to put on a good presentation. Give the kid a chance. I'm sure you didn't do that good either when you first got hired. Neither did I.

Mark, if you get hired, just go for it. Learn all you can, hopefully from a good teacher. Being a projectionist is like sex: You can read up on how to do it, but you only get good at when you have practice haha [Big Grin] I hope that lightened the mood just a bit.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-07-2007, 02:20 AM:
 
quote: Allison Parsons
"....You can read up on how to do it, but you only get good at when you have practice...."
Funny ... some of us just dove in head first with no help at all...in fact when we dove in head first, we then turned the operation around to where we were retraining the clowns that taught us...like I did...but I had some other form of help: I had high school AV experience with all sorts of projection mediums.

If one really want to know what theatre business is like, go work out at a drive-in theatre...where I started in this fool industry many, many moons ago.

When I heard of this one drive-in needing projectionists, I went out to this drive-in to apply, but one guy was ahead of me. But I showed enough ambition to where the owner hired me and allowed for me to be trained.

The guy ahead of me and myself were trained by the booth operator there, couldn't get the training the way it should be on handling arc lamphouses and doing changeovers-let alone didn't even show us how to set the INT sprocket to make the changeover in frame. After such confusion, that guy ahead of me bailed out knowing that this wasn' the job he really wanted to do. With me, it was heaven and I showed dilligence and determination to really get this all down, for I wanted to be a projectionist.

Thus, during my training weeks, I just ignored his training tactics and came up with own that made the presentations a whole lot better (nowdays, going on your own seems to be a very bad habit to get into - have to follow a system to the letter, or get ten lashes across the back for even thinking of doing such a thing..)...and he then quit shortly afterwards (because, he was wanting to get out of that atmosphere anywho..) and that drive-in was mine for the next 5 years...running Motiographs and Ashcrafts.

Thus, with practice comes experience, and experience gains self respect, pride in your work,and feeling successful in what you're doing. And self respect gains respect from potiental employers who are seeking experienced help.

Good luck with the Majestic interview. Gotta start somewhere.

-Monte
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-07-2007, 03:03 AM:
 
quote: Scott Norwood
Are you seriously planning to take on the responsibility for managing a high-end SAN and theatre-wide network for $10-15/hour (or whatever they are paying their projectionists)? If so, that's crazy, when a job with similar responsibilities in other industries will easily pay twice that (or more) and probably offer more interesting work and more opportunities for advancement.
There is next to nothing to manage there anyway unless you are highly qualified and very specifically trained on that very system. All the digital projection systems are typically remotely network-monitored by people who do just that. Full time. There is really nothing for theater personnel to do there except for to edit playlists and sometimes ingest or transfer content or keys. That's it. No matter what system it is, I can basically guarantee you somebody in the booth "managing" anything in it is the network control center's very worst nightmare, and very likely something that the theater owners' policies most strictly forbid. Just imagine the pandemonium that will break out if theater personnel "manage" anything in the network and take it down. And I am not just talking about operations or the lack thereof following the crash. I am talking about legal concerns, whose fault is it, who pays for the damage, lost business, the troubleshooting and repair time...
What d-cinema solution are Marcus using anyway?
 
Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 03-08-2007, 10:11 PM:
 
quote:
Man, this is a rough room!
I agree. Give the kid a break. He obviously did well enough to get past the first interview.

There are plenty of people who post on this Board who I wouldn't hire. In spite of the fact that there are many here with technical smarts, I see a lot of arrogance, hostility, ego, anger, poor communication skills, rigidness, and resistance to change.

Some people made a point that one shouldn't try to B.S. in an interview and most of the time I would agree, but there are cases where if you are smart enough, you can pull it off. Many years ago when I was a student, I got occasional audio work from one of my college communications professors. One day he asked if I had ever operated a Nagra. I said yes. I rushed to a phone booth and called a friend of mine who was studying engineering. I said, "Howie, what's a Nagra?" He explained that it was the tape deck used in film production, that it recorded time code on a center track, etc. It rang a bell. So I looked up Nagra's New York offices, purchased a manual, convinced them to give me a 10-minute lesson on using a Nagra, got the job with the teacher and pulled it off successfully.

Shortly after that incident, I got my first job as a recording engineer and also did a stint in the radio/TV studios at the U.N.. About seven years later, I applied for a job with a large media company, but didn't hear from them until a year later. When I finally got in for the interview, it turned out that a large portion of the job was recording foreign language tapes. I was honest in that I told them I didn't speak any foreign languages, but that while at the U.N. I edited tapes in Russian, Chinese, Japanese and Swahili every day and that I thought I could do the job. I got the job even though the original requirement was to be fluent in at least two foreign languages.

So I think a bit of B.S. and an aggressive (positive) attitude can work if you think you're smart enough to pull it off if you actually get the job.

Having said that, there are obviously skills a projectionist needs to know that are based upon standard practices and can't be learned instinctively or by tinkering. But I think to deconstruct every word this kid writes is unfair. I wonder how many of us would have "passed" the same scrutiny when we were starting out.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-08-2007, 11:28 PM:
 
quote: Michael Schaffer
What d-cinema solution are Marcus using anyway?
Solution? To what problem? Only wimpy marketing people use the term "solution" when describing a product (unless maybe you're talking about a chemical product). And we all know that marketing usually knows next to nothing about reality.
 
Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-09-2007, 12:06 AM:
 
quote: Martin Brooks
I wonder how many of us would have "passed" the same scrutiny when we were starting out.
ummm I suspect none! Mark has demonstrated great character simply by returning for more and not giving up!

No wonder there are so many lurkers who will not post.
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-09-2007, 02:17 AM:
 
quote: Martin Brooks
I agree. Give the kid a break. He obviously did well enough to get past the first interview.
Maybe we even helped him a little with our direct and honest criticism, maybe he went in with a clearer idea and a little less of that "I came, saw, and conquered" attitude which may be OK when you speak about past achievements, but not when you haven't really done anything yet except for proclaiming what you intend to do in the future.

Like I said earlier, the best criticism is open and honest criticism. To be criticized with great scrutiny is great training, if you go in prepared like that is much better than going in underprepared with nothing but a few hollow phrases and pats on the shoulder. That can easily lead to desaster and disappointment.

Like your post, which has some interesting stories but contributes absolutely nothing to the subject and has no bit of useable advice in it (oh yeah, except for "sometimes you have to bs a little").

Think about it this way: what's worse than harsh criticism and direct advice?
No advice.
We need advice and criticism, but if we ask for it, we also have to accept it and not boohoo about whatever we don't like. If somebody asks for advice and gets so much of it, he should be grateful. It's up to him to sort out what really helps and what doesn't, but a lot of people don't understand that advice from experienced people is not a cold buffet. One shouldn't just take the parts one wants to hear and leave the parts one doesn't want to hear. In one's own best interest.

Like I said, worse than unpleasant advice is no advice. If the result of some well meant, but open and honest words is all that crying and complaining, then next time, people will probably simply not reply. Oops.

quote: Joe Redifer
Solution? To what problem?
To the problem or question: we want d-cinema, how do we do it? The solution is not the d-cinema as such. It is not the question if it is "better" than film or not or if it is better for a given setup or not. That is a completely different question: To d or not to d?
Once somebody has arrived at an answer to that question, for whatever reasons, and decides that he wants d-cinema, then the next question is: which equipment and which setup will provide the complete solution. Because you don't just roll in the projector and plug it in. You also have to integrate it in a given or new setup and figure out how to deliver content and operate the equipment. In that context, the word solution is not a marketing term, it is the sum of the answers to all these detail questions.
Hope that helps.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-09-2007, 07:54 PM:
 
quote: Michael Schaffer
maybe he went in with a clearer idea and a little less of that "I came, saw, and conquered" attitude
I think this is why he received such a cold response. No matter what job he interview for, coming in with that attitude is wrong. Simply because he thinks he knows projection when all he really knows is when a picture is out of focus and the sounds cuts in and out, doesn't mean he's a pro. Do you think he could sit in a well tuned auditorium and be able to tell us if he's listening to dolby digital, DTS, SDDS or analog? I bet he can't, but ask him...and I'll be he thinks he can. I have no personal ill will towards him..if he gets the job, learns everything, listens well and leaves the arrogance at home with his DVD player and TV, he might do well. Then again, he has this job so built up, that I dont think it can EVER meet his expectations.
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-09-2007, 10:11 PM:
 
quote: Frank Dubrois
Do you think he could sit in a well tuned auditorium and be able to tell us if he's listening to dolby digital, DTS, SDDS or analog?
I sure can't! Analog, yes... not so much SR, though. But the digital formats... ya got me!
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-09-2007, 10:14 PM:
 
Nor can I. I wonder if he thinks he could?
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-10-2007, 02:27 AM:
 
quote: Frank Dubrois
Do you think he could sit in a well tuned auditorium and be able to tell us if he's listening to dolby digital, DTS, SDDS or analog? I bet he can't, but ask him...and I'll be he thinks he can. I have no personal ill will towards him..if he gets the job, learns everything, listens well and leaves the arrogance at home with his DVD player and TV, he might do well. Then again, he has this job so built up, that I dont think it can EVER meet his expectations.
Wow, it never ends here. To respond or not to respond. Ah, the hell with it. I don't know about the whole "well-tuned" aspect, but I'm pretty confident I can recognize analog stereo when I hear it. Then again, most of my experiences with it have involved the sound not having that crisp clarity to it, or slight dialogue leak to the rear channels (NOT panning or echoing, which can be in a well-mixed digital track).

Dolby Digital Vs DTS is a tough one. I guess in a perfect theater I couldn't tell the difference, but most are far from perfect. Generally with Dolby Digital, I'll hear a slight gap with the reel change, especially if there's ongoing music or ambient sound FX going on at that time. DTS usually gives itself away with its consistent absolutely seamless soundtrack during reel changes or during bad film noise that would usually cause dropouts with DD read off the film. SDDS, I couldn't tell ya, there was only one theater in my area with that sound system, and it would often revert to analog... I guess with the finnicky readers and it being on the far edges of the film, I shouldn't of been too surprised by that. I will say that with SDDS it sounded like there was a bit more compression on the higher frequency sounds, but that could've just been their particular sound system (which was always insanely loud). If there is a way to tell the difference between DD, DTS, and SDDS in a perfectly tuned theater, I don't know it... I suppose I'd have to be more familiar with the way the various compression algorithms sound on a particular sound system... something that changes with every theater I go to.

I suppose just by my answering of your question you'll find something new to pick me apart on. Or maybe this makes me arrogant? Yeah, that's it. Admitting I know nothing about the job of being a projectionist from the start + talking about other knowledge and interests that I think may be related = total arrogance. Of course! Why couldn't I see it all along! [Roll Eyes]

I could mention how I've mixed my own 5.1 Dolby Digital tracks before (custom upmixes for trailers I loved that were only in stereo), or how it's not a TV and DVD player, but in fact a 720p DLP projector and HD-DVD player (Toshiba A2), but I wouldn't want to appear arrogant, now would I. (Cue Frank reminding me snidely how my DLP projector has nothing to do with theater projectors. Really? I thought people weren't opening more theaters because they just didn't feel like it... cause ya know... every projector is only a couple grand. Thanks for clearing that up a few times now.)
 
Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 03-10-2007, 03:17 AM:
 
BRAVO [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2007, 12:59 PM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
Generally with Dolby Digital, I'll hear a slight gap with the reel change, especially if there's ongoing music or ambient sound FX going on at that time.
Mark - we converted from DTS to Dolby about a year ago and I can vouch that there are no dropouts at the reel changes, at least on the new (and near-new) prints we run. I had heard that was a problem in the early Dolby Digital days (indeed, that was one of my primary reasons for originally going with DTS in addition to the price).
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-10-2007, 01:07 PM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
I could mention how I've mixed my own 5.1 Dolby Digital tracks before (custom upmixes for trailers I loved that were only in stereo), or how it's not a TV and DVD player, but in fact a 720p DLP projector and HD-DVD player (Toshiba A2), but I wouldn't want to appear arrogant, now would I.
Sorry guy, but if Frank was to respond he would be correct to say that nothing you wrote in that paragraph above has the slightest impact on working at a theater. Once you get the job and start working it, this will make sense. This forum doesn't sugar-coat it's responses. Ask and ye shall receive answers, then you can personally decide what answers were useful to you. Replying with anger because someone told you something that you didn't want to hear is only aggravating the issues on this thread. The same thing goes when you single out someone with praise because they told you what you wanted to hear.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-10-2007, 01:58 PM:
 
Does listening for types of sound actually have anything to do with getting a job at a theater? No. It's not as if I was or will be asked "So what's your favorite part about DTS?" at any point during the hiring process. This was completely unrelated to begin with. Guess what? We were talking about Dolby Digital! So I thought I'd mention how I've made my own DD tracks! Instead of going "Wow, that's kinda interesting, what software/methods did you use? What trailers did you do it for? How did it sound?" You right away come back to how it has nothing to do with working at a theater. Really? Again, I thought the projectionist was responsible for the intricate digital mixes that most movies have these days. Shocking!
quote: Mike Blakesley
Mark - we converted from DTS to Dolby about a year ago and I can vouch that there are no dropouts at the reel changes, at least on the new (and near-new) prints we run. I had heard that was a problem in the early Dolby Digital days (indeed, that was one of my primary reasons for originally going with DTS in addition to the price).
I guess a lot of local theaters must be using old equipment or not splicing too well then, because I know what I hear, and I often hear it right after those 2 cigarette burns. [Smile]
 
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-10-2007, 02:11 PM:
 
What you could be hearing may not be a gap but a jump in the sound because who ever built up the print cut two frames off the head and tail of each reel causing the sound to jump. Dolby has a built in delay in the Dolby track at the reel changes that prevents dropouts of the sound at reel changes however, trailers do not have this delay so reverts can occur between trailers.
 
Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-10-2007, 02:45 PM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
So I thought I'd mention how I've made my own DD tracks! Instead of going "Wow, that's kinda interesting, what software/methods did you use? What trailers did you do it for? How did it sound?" You right away come back to how it has nothing to do with working at a theater.
But it doesn't.....
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-10-2007, 02:54 PM:
 
Heh then you don't understand anything of what I've just said. I've never heard of selective reading but I guess it must exist.
quote: Brad Miller
The same thing goes when you single out someone with praise because they told you what you wanted to hear.
When someone is kind and polite to me, I like to return that with a thanks. There's really nothing more to it than that. The majority of what you're calling "good advice" that was given in this thread, was mixed in with a huge amount of snide remarks and assumptions. Of course any response to the incorrect assumptions about me is considered blasphemy... I should just sit down and take anything the film gods here want to say about me. Sorry, I don't operate like that. Never have, never will.
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 03-10-2007, 04:45 PM:
 
quote: Frank Dubrois
Do you think he could sit in a well tuned auditorium and be able to tell us if he's listening to dolby digital, DTS, SDDS or analog?
In an ideal setup where everything has been set precisely I don't think there are many people who would be able to tell what they were listening to in a completely blind test (with the exception of digital vs analog). I know SDDS used to do a demo where they'd have remote switch on the fly between SDDS and whatever digital format the theater had installed before. The sales guy would sit there and switch and say "see how much better SDDS sounds?"

The head technical guy from GCC at the time told me he didn't hear any difference so he asked for the remote and put it behind his back. He then told the SDDS sales guy to tell him when he switched and what format it was. He told me that half the time the SDDS sales guy didn't even know that a switch had occurred and the times that he noticed the little glitch when a switched happened he guessed the wrong format over 50% of the time.

I don't know if it was SDDS vs. DTS or SDDS vs. Dolby Digital.
 
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-10-2007, 07:42 PM:
 
quote: Mark Strube
Sorry, I don't operate like that. Never have, never will.
Looks like you haven't operated *much in general* so far, and that may explain why some people are reluctant to give respect to someone who is all talk, and, according to himself, little action so far.

By the time I was 22, I had already worked in the cinema for 7 years and was in the middle of my formal studies (or "in college", as one would say in the US), and I think if you ask around, you will find that similar applies to many - most - of the nice people here.

At least in the universe I inhabit, you have to earn respect by work and achievement, not by proclamations, and I am under the impression that most posters here are located in that same universe. Maybe not you, though.

Cinema basically isn't so difficult, so we don't want to be dramtic here, but if you do it *really* well, both as an operator and a technician, it's actually much harder than it looks. Long hours, late hours, weekends, little room for error, high responsibility, and if you ever get into the technical side of things, you will see it is actually quite complex and challenging, and since the equipment is expensive and serves a realtime business, playing with it happens on an altogether different level than home theater and all that. It's much tougher than it looks at first.

Many people here have worked many hard years in that business and know how difficult it can be.
You haven't, so you have to excuse them for not taking you entirely seriously.

That you want to do all that, too, that sounds really nice but first you have to show you can do that. Or anything, really.

quote: Lyle Romer
In an ideal setup where everything has been set precisely I don't think there are many people who would be able to tell what they were listening to in a completely blind test (with the exception of digital vs analog).
Very true, although I think *very few* people ever had the opportunity to run such blind tests under representative conditions. I had a number of auditoriums in Berlin which did actually have SDDS, DTS, and DD all in the same auditorium hooked up to very good B-chains and there I subjected experienced colleagues (and they me) to extensive blind tests.

In 90% of the material heard in a typical movie, most people, including experienced listeners, can't really tell the differences. That actually includes good and optimally aligned analog reader systems as well.

When the material gets busy and complex, you can hear some very slight differences between DD and DTS, mostly in the surrounds, but you have to specifically play attention to that, and that is only in situations where you have very active stereo surrounds at the same time as action in the front channels. But those differences wouldn't matter on most systems out there and they don't matter in general because the audience doesn't sit there and tries to figure out which sound system is playing, ideally, if everything is working nicely, they get engorssed by the movie experience, and all systems deliver that.

In those tests, people were actually able to pick out SDDS with some regularity, but that doesn't matter anymore anyway now.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2007, 08:56 PM:
 
quote: Darryl Spicer
Dolby has a built in delay in the Dolby track at the reel changes that prevents dropouts of the sound at reel changes however, trailers do not have this delay so reverts can occur between trailers.
I never knew that! Always wondered why there is often a slight analog "pop" between trailers when the splice goes through. I always blamed it on maybe splicing too far back into the "black," even though Dolby data blocks were visible on both sides of the splice. Thanks for that info...I feel better now. [Smile]

And Mark...I wasn't trying to tell you that you weren't hearing a revert. You probably are. I was just saying that I'd heard it was a problem in the past and has been corrected on newer units/prints.

quote: Michael Schaffer
By the time I was 22, I had already worked in the cinema for 7 years and was in the middle of my formal studies (or "in college", as one would say in the US), and I think if you ask around, you will find that similar applies to many - most - of the nice people here.
Yeah...I first stepped into the Roxy's projection booth in 1966 at the age of 9, because my dad knew I'd be interested in the machinery and got me a tour. I went back in as a projectionist trainee in 1975 for $4 a night and as an owner in '79.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-10-2007, 10:29 PM:
 
I would actually argue that there _is_ some value to having been involved in production work (sound or motion picture) for projectionists. For example, the original poster says that he has mixed his own soundtracks. To me, this means that there is a reasonable chance that he understands the typical theatre speaker placement for mono, matrixed Dolby, and digital reproduction systems, and has at least some knowledge of how the Dolby matrix works and the effect of different types of noise reduction in recording and reproduction. He probably also knows that theatre sound systems must be carefully designed, installed, and calibrated in order to reproduce soundtracks as they were heard in the mix facility, as well as the possible effects of poorly set up and/or poorly maintained systems. If really knows this stuff, it's valuable and would save time in training.

Knowing how to listen is also important. If a horn diaphragm blows or a speaker is wired out of phase, chances are good that someone who knows what a "good" system sounds like would be able to at least identify that something is in need of attention.

I'm not saying that the original poster necessary knows any of this, but that the chances that he does are greater than the chances that someone hired off the street would.

(And, no, I often can't even tell the difference between a good SR track and a digital track, unless there are digital dropouts and/or physical damage to the optical track area. I can, however, tell when something sounds "good" and when something is "wrong." Increasingly, I'm thinking that digital reproduction is overrated and not really necessary for the majority of films. SR sounds great and is much more reliable.)
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-10-2007, 10:59 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
And Mark...I wasn't trying to tell you that you weren't hearing a revert. You probably are. I was just saying that I'd heard it was a problem in the past and has been corrected on newer units/prints.
It's all good! There have been times I've gone to a movie on a screen that was advertised as Dolby Digital, where I didn't notice any flaws in the audio... but most of the time that isn't the case, at least around here.
quote: Michael Schaffer
Looks like you haven't operated *much in general* so far, and that may explain why some people are reluctant to give respect to someone who is all talk, and, according to himself, little action so far.
So if I had straight up lied about my previous job experience, you wouldn't of treated me so shittily? I never asked you to treat me like I know everything about this industry. However, I think you can give me the common courtesy of *some* politeness here. I don't give respect automatically, and neither should you... but there's a difference between respect and simple kindness, neither of which you've given me, no matter how informative you think your responses are. But hey... my words shouldn't matter to you. As you said, I haven't operated much in general, why give me an ounce of respect or credibility?
 
Posted by Joel N. Weber II (Member # 3530) on 03-10-2007, 11:32 PM:
 
Another place where listening can be valuable is when playing older Dobly A prints in a venue with digital sound decoders; I've experienced the decoder switching into SR, seemingly at random. It didn't immediately occur to me that the poor quality might be caused by decoding in the wrong format.

(Another projectionist was later speculating that perhaps there was a borrowed head/tail with some digital sound information that was causing that format switching. And of course, if you know this problem may happen, switching off the digital sound decoder while running the analog-only print may make sense...)
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-10-2007, 11:39 PM:
 
quote: Joel N. Weber II
Another projectionist was later speculating that perhaps there was a borrowed head/tail with some digital sound information that was causing that format switching. And of course, if you know this problem may happen, switching off the digital sound decoder while running the analog-only print may make sense...
Now here's a question for ya. When I went to see Smokin' Aces on the local SDDS screen that's now closed... I remember 2 of the 3 trailers were in SDDS, but the third (Hot Fuzz) was clearly not, much quieter, not nearly as crisp, no directional effects. No idea if that trailer had SDDS or not, though. But for the entire first reel of the movie, it was in quieter (especially for this usually LOUD screen) and more unclear analog. My friends, who I had hyped up this loud screen's sound system to, were disappointed. I remember saying that I bet if it'll click in, it'll happen when it hits the next reel. Sure enough, as soon as it hit the splice, the SDDS clicked in, and it was very loud and clear... the rest of the movie stayed in SDDS, and it sounded great.

I'm wondering, what's the reason for this? It didn't appear that first reel was especially dirty or anything. Is there special header information on the film that instructs certain decoders to go into SDDS mode, that sometimes isn't spliced correctly?
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-11-2007, 12:47 AM:
 
Ok enough of this nonsense from all sides.

Mark you may remind me in one week to reactive you. In the meantime you need to take a break and understand that when you ask for advice here you WILL get advice you don't want to hear. That's the entire purpose of it, for you to get varying opinions so you can add them all up and decide what is the most useful comments for your situation and be able to turn the "negative comments" into positive advice.

Good luck with your job.

 




Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2