This is topic ShoWest 2006 Wearhouse Pictures in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 03-02-2007, 12:18 AM:
 
Who makes this platter/projection system?



This equipment would work perfectly in our theatre, and I'm very jealous of it. Has anyone had the opprotunity of working with this equipment?
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-02-2007, 12:25 AM:
 
Thomas, It is a Chinese projector, if you are interested, I can see if they are still available. I havent worked with them since last year and that system was a prototype.

Rick
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-02-2007, 01:40 AM:
 
Too bad it's ass backwards. Obviously they do that so the lazy projectionist never has to walk to the other side of the machine, god forbid.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-02-2007, 03:23 AM:
 
Yea, was a slick little system called a HORIZON with the underslung 42 inch decks platter system. Projector transmission is similar to an XL - oil spray bath, cone shutter, vertical main shaft, and only using brass and steel gearing. Only thing that can bring up red flags on this unit is that the shutter gear was a bit on the small side and it hints of easily being stripped if the unit had to stop suddenly.

Was rather a cheesy threading pattern by the pict below that I took of it when I was there last year:


The metal formulation was obviously substandard-rough surfaces being not polished to smoothness. The INT sprocket wasn't machined all that too carefully. Massive film dust everywhere in that thing hinting of sharp edges where the edge of the film makes contact.

Good for a viewing room or a form of light occasional usage, but not for mainstream usage.

The one booth that really got me was the LIT booth that had those Century knockoffs called Monees...

-Monte

[ 03-19-2007, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-02-2007, 03:54 AM:
 
Monees have been around FOREVER.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-02-2007, 01:13 PM:
 

quote: Joe Redifer

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Monees have been around FOREVER.

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You're right... I think Mahatma Ghandi had them in his screening room .
 

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Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 03-02-2007, 03:04 PM:
 
I think that if the projection unit is able to be swapped out with any projector but keep the platter design, right under the lamp house. In the old small multi-plex theatres like ours in ALtamonte Spirngs, commonly known as the Interstate 6, the booths are really cramped with only 2 projection units in it and platters. My understanding and information is that Cinemeccanica made the projection special for AMC, back when they ran Reel to Reel, as you can see in the pictures.


You can see in this one where the exhaust for the second lamp house was situated over the platter system.

You can see the how the exhaust vent here was double sided for two projectors to feed off of it.
 

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Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 03-02-2007, 04:36 PM:
 
Philips / Kinoton had a similar arrangement back in the 1970s. In fact, I think some of their very first non-rewind designs had the platter situated under the lamphouse (but higher off the ground).

Looking at the contemporary Chinese version, a concern would be ergonomics - constant stooping / crouching to thread, etc.

A better space-saver might be the spool-based "sidewinder" designs of Strong, Kinoton and Cinemeccanica, albeit these don't have the non-rewind advantages of a platter.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-02-2007, 04:54 PM:
 
Agreed with Monte - Monees were vile. As a student in the mid-90s I had a part-time job in a little fleapit on the south coast which had the things. The parts were poorly machined (as Monte said, sharp edges everywhere) from a cheap, soft alloy; and the sprocket teeth hooked and deformed in no time (this was at the time polyester film was just starting to come in, and it ate those sprockets for breakfast). I'm sure that what was saved on the capital cost of the units quickly disappeared in maintenance costs.

That having been said, this was 11-12 years ago; and what with the rapid pace of technological development in India, the newer Monees might be better.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-02-2007, 05:44 PM:
 
Brian, the Harbin platter projector comes with a set of knee pads in the spares kit It is really a two platter unit, the bottom disk is a storage unit. Maybe at ShoWest they may show their version of a belt drive projector a la Christie
Monee....improve seals and check stars and cams in the intermittent....change out gear screws...replace sound damper rollers...check soundhead main drive gear and shaft...and it should work
 

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Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 03-02-2007, 05:57 PM:
 
My understanding is that Preimere Cinemas wanted to open the Orlando location using those Horizons.

They look nifty, but if the quality of information you can find on the internet about them is related to the quality of the equipment, well, they're probably not that nice.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-02-2007, 06:06 PM:
 
That thing is kind of cute. It seems like a "normal" projector setup (separate picture head, sound head, lamphouse, base, and platter) would be more flexible and have a longer service life than one of those all-in-one units, though.

So, how much cheaper is this Chinese machine versus buying, say, a Simplex or Century projector/soundhead, Super Lume-X lamphouse, Strong base, and a Christie platter separately?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-02-2007, 10:29 PM:
 
Years ago both the ernaman 12 and the fp20 were available with an intigrated platter
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-03-2007, 10:09 AM:
 
Didn't Bauer have a similar device used by UA? Louis
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-04-2007, 12:32 PM:
 

quote: Monte L Fullmer

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The metal formulation was obviously substandard-rough surfaces being not polished to smoothness. The INT sprocket wasn't machined all that too carefully. Massive film dust everywhere in that thing hinting of sharp edges where the edge of the film makes contact.

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quote: Louis Bornwasser

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Didn't Bauer have a similar device used by UA?

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Yes! That was the first thing that popped in my mind when I saw the pix.

Wonderful forethought to have that platter right down there on the floor, where you can't work on it!
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-05-2007, 12:50 PM:
 
Thomas,
Here is the link to that projector. If you are serious, E-mail me and I will get you prices. That total system is about $13,500 U.S.

Monte,

quote: Monte L Fullmer

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The metal formulation was obviously substandard-rough surfaces being not polished to smoothness. The INT sprocket wasn't machined all that too carefully. Massive film dust everywhere in that thing hinting of sharp edges where the edge of the film makes contact.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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This statement is what you will find on most Chineese manufactured stuff being imported over here. The quality of the fit and finish is VERY crappy. Oil Seals also tend to wear out very quickly... not necessarily because the oil seals are bad but because the shaft finish its running on stinks. This quality is also very common on Chineese built machine tools

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quote: Aaron Sisemore

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The bottom deck on the underslung Horizon 'platterjector' does not function and is solely used to store a second print, which would still have to be clamped and moved to one of the main decks.

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Wow...this must make makeup and breakdown lots of "fun."

For $13k, I'd take a good, used Simplex or Century setup with an AW3 platter over this, although I can see how it might make sense in a very small booth.

(sorry, Brad...I've never seen a Goldberg platter reel, even in "classy" theatres, and I seriously doubt that any place that buys this machine would spring for one or more platter reels)
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-05-2007, 07:22 PM:
 
Aaron,
My response was a smartass remark against Marks comments about Chinese people. He referred to them as Chinks in this thread and Commies in another thread. I have very strong threads to people in China and I don't appreciate these remarks, same as I don't appreciate how you can edit my posts. Instead of editing them, just delete them in the future, because as you change it, it becomes something that is not mine. It's shit like this that is driving me away from posting anything else on this forum

Rick
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-05-2007, 09:05 PM:
 
Rick,

Accept my appologies for calling them by their nicknames as many do. Ok... Chineese and Communists is what I'll stick to in the future... I've had black people call me "Whitie" and Spanish people call me other names and I'm sure you call me some too... and really who cares.

As to my experience in this industry and my other technical background you haven't a clue, and yes... my hobbies are VERY diverse. What do you do in your spare time?

Mark
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-05-2007, 09:13 PM:
 
Jeez, are you guys talking about the cheap crap at Harbor Freight? You can probably get a POS Chinese-made metal lathe there for $99.97. That doesn't prove that China can't produce a quality metal lathe. If everything from China was as bad as you say, how would China be able to manufacture anything at all? (I know - They buy used 50s-vintage American machine tools! ) It's not like American companies never build junk for sale at a low price point. They can and they do. Same for the Japanese, etc.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-05-2007, 10:04 PM:
 

quote: David Stambaugh

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That doesn't prove that China can't produce a quality metal lathe.

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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Rick,

Accept my appologies for calling them by their nicknames as many do.

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Mark, no apology necessary. I was just making a smartass remark towards you. You know I get defensive about the Chinese. I have strong ( NO PUN INTENDED ) ties with alot of friends there. I actually expected you to say something about the workmanship from China. We're good , I just always try to speak my mind.

Rick
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-06-2007, 03:09 PM:
 
Rick,

Believe me I'm not anti-cChineese at all. Would love to go there some day but there are alot of mines to explore here before they are re-claimed, many with gold like you saw.

Recently I had a batch of some 300 circuit boards manufactured in China. These were made to Mil specs, .093" G-10 with 2-oz. foil and gold plated, solder masked and silk screened... the works. They even solder masked half of them blue and left the other half bare gold plate. They are gorgeous to say the least and the boards took only 6 days from the time I sent my files by e-mail till I had them. Cost with next day UPS shipping was less than 1/3 of the least expensisive board house here in the States. The quality I would say was MUCH better than the batch of 250 U.S. made boards I had done last year by Advanced Circuits in Colorado.

Mark
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-08-2007, 03:49 AM:
 

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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... The quality I would say was MUCH better than the batch of 250 U.S. made boards...

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We're just gonna have to keep an eye on China as the most industrialized country in the world for they're definitely working on a system that can outdo our manufacturing systems.

Like next year, they want to bring a car over to the States..from Geely Motors...and tons of dealers are waiting for that day, since the price of that particular model will be a couple of thousand less than Kia's popular model...and highly fuel efficent and economical, esp with these fuel prices that has hit our country that are on a roller coaster ride for right now.

The top six automakers in China below:

Geely
Chery Automobile
Great Wall Motors (GWM)
Zhongxing Auto
Zhonghua (Brilliance Auto)
Hafei Auto
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 03-08-2007, 04:31 AM:
 
China now produces more steel than the US, EU, and Japan....combined.

Nothing to scoff at.
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-08-2007, 06:04 AM:
 
Monte,
The city I have an apartment in ,Changchun, has a major auto plant there. It is an Audi/VW plant. The majority of cars on the road were Audi A6's and VW Jettas. Almost every Taxi was an older Jetta. I met many people from Germany who were there to do work/training at the factory. I don't know if they will export them or not. The city's population is around 8 million.

Rick
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-18-2007, 01:00 PM:
 
Whilst at Showorst I took some time to examine the Horizon Projector and came to the ultimate conclusion that it is exactly as I said in my original post... touch and go. The quality of the main casting is quite inferior on the unmachned areas where the exposed "Sand Casting" actually took on the appearance more of a "Gravel Casting". Its what you typically see in the inexpensive Chinese machine tools that are being imported today. Also there was quite a bit of film dust on the interior of the machne as was stated by someone else in this thread. The machine did have a nice solid sound to it while running but why on earth is it enclosed? That only serves to make cleaning it all the more difficult in todyas multiplex. The gear train appeared adaquate and the overall quality of the actual gearing which is similar to an X-L looks good but remains to be seen. To those that buy these machines time will tell. The platter is woefully inadaquate for a normal multiplex in terms of capacity but ran smooth. Another beef I have with this Chinese stuff is the woeful quality of the electrical components that are typically used.... just awful stuff. Over all I would say this is just an average projector.

Mark
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-18-2007, 05:05 PM:
 
Yes, but what was the price and how does that price compare to a normal console/power supply/projector/platter setup?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-18-2007, 05:19 PM:
 
John,
Over the life of a theater or plex the price diffrence... any savings is for the most part is false economy!! Its not really all that important unless you are a real cheap skate. Most of our customers buy new projection equipment when it comes to new builds and the difference in cost of the Chinese machine over one you sell is really irrelevant. Again I judge it to be just an average projector... not one that I'd be selling to my customers anyway.

Mark
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-18-2007, 08:15 PM:
 
...with using a glass mirror, the price of the mirrow is only $250.00(??) ... and using bulbs from 1k to 4.2k - wow, what versatility...

..and price of an intermittent assembly only $200.00(??)

Price for the platter version was $11k, whereas the all-in-one priced out at $13k

(from what the rep there told me on this - and I loved the upside down SPECO failsafe unit on that Horizon...that one really got me...but it'd be easy to clean that way..but did wonder why a unit was fully enclosed. And the one door assembly fully reminded me of the door on a one piece Monee )

[ 03-19-2007, 02:07 AM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]
 

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Posted by Bevan Wright (Member # 1884) on 03-18-2007, 09:59 PM:
 
Monte, I'm afraid you are confused, MIT has never done anything with a Monee projector. Perhaps you are confusing us with LIT.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-19-2007, 02:03 AM:
 
(Whoops, my bad - got the letters turned around and please accept my apologies to the Moving Images Technology company..need to be a bit more careful on such references)
 

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-19-2007, 07:30 AM:
 
Hi, Mark ... I hear you and agree that being cheap can be false economy. But with the generally low quality of films being released, poor percentages, digital on the way, etc, even owners who were not cheap may now be tempted to do things they otherwise might not do. They simply don't have the money and, 'saving' say, $2K times a 20-plex equals $40K.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-19-2007, 07:44 AM:
 
But how do you upgrade something like this? In a standard setup, I can upgrade the parts individually (lamphouse, projector head, soundhead, platter, etc.). With this, you'd have to throw the whole thing away if you wanted to upgrade any part of it.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-19-2007, 08:50 AM:
 
Scott: you are correct.....you just don't upgrade. Louis
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-19-2007, 10:24 AM:
 
The heads are available open faced. Chinese manufacturers tend to sell systems as complete with many models / versions for specific uses; their normal enduser is not thinking upgrade or "new and improved" since the marketplace competitive incentive is not their mindset.
So buy now and throw away when digital is here how many $39.95 progressive DVD players do you send in for service? You guys are hoping for that sound drum reverse scan upgrade kit for that W.E. Universal base projector should be ready any day...the market demands it!!
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-19-2007, 01:24 PM:
 

quote: Richard Fowler

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So buy now and throw away when digital is here

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Richard, I did the first multiplex install of the Horizon projectors here, and that is one reason the theater went with this projector. The multiplex expects to switch over to digital in the future. Horizon even marketed the projector that way (to an extent) at the show last year when the debuted it. Not as a throwaway, but as a cheaper alternative.

Rick
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-19-2007, 01:51 PM:
 
Rick,
as one noted equipment as "average", attractive price does help, depending on what side of the situation you are in. There are other "average" equipment in the market, with brand name frame, mixed with the obviously superior ( or comfortable ) product
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 03-19-2007, 02:27 PM:
 
Richard, With "hands On" experience, I will say these machines put out an excellent image. The stability rivaled a dual intermittent machine. They had some design problems that we worked on, I hear they fixed them. I met at the factory in Harbin with the engineers last January, and then last year when they came to the states for Showest. They weren't familiar with multiplexes and I spent a week or so taking them around the states after the show. I haven't had any involvement with them since, other than chatting with the translator online every few weeks

Rick
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-19-2007, 02:32 PM:
 
Rick,
my personal rental equipment is like a "mutt" stew. A dash of European, a pinch of Chinese, and a dab of American
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-19-2007, 06:22 PM:
 

quote:

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You guys are hoping for that sound drum reverse scan upgrade kit for that W.E. Universal base projector should be ready any day...the market demands it!!

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quote: Gordon McLeod

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Yes it is in high demand along with the Royal Soundmaster Ballantyne Model 6 version

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Hey, that's low! You know I wanted to junk them all rather than make my own LED brackets for them. I recall you were quite disappointed when I kept them and you couldn't have them.
 

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