Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: I have an RCA FR-35B for personal use and want to convert it (inexpensively) to xenon

This is topic I have an RCA FR-35B for personal use and want to convert it (inexpensively) to xenon in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Zachary Vex (Member # 4204) on 03-10-2007, 12:51 AM:

Does anyone have any ideas for how to go about doing that in a relatively simple way? This is a projector designed for use in TV stations (built in 1980) for telecine, and it only has a 1K halogen bulb. As you can imagine, it's not very bright.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-10-2007, 01:18 AM:

I think that's a lost cause... there is no way that projector/film would stand up to the heat of a xenon. Sell it and get a real projector.

While I have some experience with those projectors, you might want to email FT member Mark Gulbrandsen. He has tons of experience with those machines.

Posted by Zachary Vex (Member # 4204) on 03-10-2007, 03:21 AM:

Perhaps I could mount a (much) bigger heat sink on the dichroic mirror. 8^)

Thanks for the post! I'll contact Mark. I appreciate the reference.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 03-10-2007, 03:47 AM:

Also You could try heat filter in front of film gate......but that depends how big XBO You want put it inside?

But I think 500W Horz XBO won't get much heat to get damage to film and projector......

If isn't hard to YOu put a picture of that machine.....it seems to be interesting to saw!

Posted by Zachary Vex (Member # 4204) on 03-10-2007, 04:29 AM:

[imagine picture of RCA FR-35B here]

[ 03-10-2007, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Zachary Vex ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2007, 09:06 AM:

Actually RCA made a studio version that would mount on a standard base and use a standard xenon lamphouse. ICECO had one of these kicking around about 10 years ago. Personally I wouldn't waste my time doing it although yes it can obviously be done since they did it at the factory... the main reason I wouldn't is that if you loose a motor the entire machine is a boat anchor..... unless you've a second one for parts. None of the motors are available any longer and if they were they'd be so expensive that you wouldn't consider it. Think about it... a new pull down servo motor for a Kinoton is about 35 grand! Its an interesting piece... just don't tell Jack Valenti you own one [Wink]

.

Mark

P.S> have you blown a wind DC rail fuse yet? The reel will go to 10K rpm from a dead stop in half a second and you won't be unscrewin that split reel ever again!(I wonder if the Kinoton E series can do this?) That makes the new Bugatti look feeble as for speed [Big Grin]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-10-2007, 10:17 AM:

Several dubbing theatres up here had them with 2K xetron lamphouses on them
They look a lot like the westrex electronic projector

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-10-2007, 01:10 PM:

No, no, no, no Zach. Posting the link from where you found that picture is great, but you are required to post it here.

Go to your link and save that picture, then upload it to this website and edit your post above to display the picture from within this thread. That link you provided will at some point disappear and that will as such destroy the archives for future people interested in this subject.

Everything you need to know is in the FAQ and rules page. Please be sure to read it before participating further.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2007, 02:26 PM:

quote: Gordon McLeod
They look a lot like the westrex electronic projector

Indeed.... designed by the same people and as far as I know built in their factory in Burbank for RCA. They held all the patents, Christie Digital later bought Westrex, ruined it all and then killed it all(wouldn't it be great if someone bought Christie and did the same!). No parts are available for either Westrex or RCA any longer. These machines are a dead issue. When they die they get junked. I've seen em for sale on E-Bay on the cheap.

The guys that ran Westrex are still in buisness of building electronic projectors and are called Showperfect. It is still run by Charles Fox. See this article about them. They won't provide any replacement parts for anything other than what they are building today which is considerably different than the old stuff. Their web site is here.

Mark
P.S. The 16mm RCA version was a POS... a film eater. You may also need to re-adjust the clearance of your trap when you switch from acetate to estar. Thats a real pain to set up accurately. I used to service these projectors at Editel and Astro Labs in Chicago. Astro had the first version... FR35 and it was pretty unpredictable over all from day to day. They were used in the days just before the Rank Cintel came out.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-10-2007, 02:39 PM:

The only xenon conversion of the RCA FR-35B I saw was done by a company in Canada and used an ORC M1000. Even with the beam spreader and heat filters, that thing would burn holes in film quicker than you could bat an eye.

A couple of months ago I had a chance to pickup a pristine FR-35B for $800. I passed on it after hearing the nightmares from those familiar with them like Mark and others.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2007, 02:42 PM:

You certainly wouldn't want to run it any slower than 16 to 18 fps with a Xenon on the back...... Still framing it would blast a hole in the film. Phil is right...unless you're using it for transfer purposes get a real projector.

Mark

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-10-2007, 05:33 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Phil is right...

Ya know Mark, you're making me really nervous. While we've disagreed a few times in the past (and I ALWAYS... WAIT! ...make that MOST always respect your opinion), [Razz]

lately you've agreed with me in several threads over the last couple of weeks. [Confused]

I'm beginning to think you're smoking that I-30 stuff, or want some $$$, or perhaps have come to your senses. I can't imagine ANY other reason! HA! [evil]

Huggs Pal!

Posted by Zachary Vex (Member # 4204) on 03-10-2007, 06:57 PM:

Actually, I do want to use it for transfer. There's just enough room to mount an HD camera right where the lamphouse is now, and with the camera upside down and a diffuse source on the lens side, telecine can be performed without lenses or mirrors. The projector has a sync input and 2:3 pulldown setting but what makes it really interesting to me is that I have a techniscope 35mm camera (2-perf pulldown) and I think it might be possible to modify the electronics to make the projector work in 2-perf pulldown mode as well. This allows for wide-screen shooting with only half the normal amount of film (and processing).

I have the thing in my livingroom so it would be nice to watch some of my collection with it as well, which is possible now, but a brighter lamp would be better. Thanks for all the input!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2007, 07:44 PM:

quote: Phil Hill
I'm beginning to think you're smoking that I-30 stuff, or want some $$$

Naw... we do go through episodes of this agreeing thing... Same thing happens with Guttag.... all of a sudden every Film Tech member is stunned with an agreeance... wait till next week [Wink]

.

Mark

Posted by Zachary Vex (Member # 4204) on 03-10-2007, 11:27 PM:

"have you blown a wind DC rail fuse yet? The reel will go to 10K rpm from a dead stop in half a second and you won't be unscrewin that split reel ever again!"

Hmm. Sounds like I need to build a box that kills the 110VAC if any of the rails fail! I wonder if there's a trip control on the main breaker? (After checking, sadly, there is not.)