Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Lab spices

This is topic Lab spices in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 03-14-2007, 06:37 PM:

There's probably been a debate on this subject before, but I'm curious as what other people do with them. Some leave 'em in, some tap them over, we cut 'em out. I believe ours is the correct procedure as I don't like green flashy things appearing on the screen (noremally just as the naked women appear!). What do you lot do?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-14-2007, 06:54 PM:

If they're on a frame line, most people leave them alone or tape over.

In the middle of the frame - cut'em out.

That said -- Since we get about 90% of our prints on opening day, and I usually have an hour or less between the time I get off work from my day job and the time we have to be on the screen, I don't get time to look for or repair lab splices, so they usually get left in unless I get lucky and spot one while winding the film to the platter. I haven't had one "open up" on me in at least 20 years. (Disclaimer: We play mostly new or near-new prints.)

Posted by Ross Oba (Member # 3433) on 03-14-2007, 07:07 PM:

I leave them alone. I know the way to ensure that they don't come apart is to redo them yourself, but as long as it is a brand new print I have never had any problems. If it is a used copy then I would redo them because I had the unfortunate circumstance that one came undone on the first show.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-14-2007, 08:48 PM:

In the world of polyester prints, laboratory ultrasonic splices are almost as reliable as a tape splice, so the only reason to redo them is presentation.

There is reasonable debate on both sides about their intrusiveness, and it's not really clear which side has the advantage. I personally believe that the visual instrusiveness of a huge horizontal bar across the screen, as well as the disruption to the analog sound track, more than justifies removing the frame and making a splice.

One view is that the jump and visible tape from a splice is worse than the lab splice was originally. Really, this is a personal judgement call.

Mike: They should be easy to find. Just hold the reel up to the light before you put it on the MUT (or the inspection bench). You should see the knife pattern change across the lab splice, giving you a good idea whether (and where!) there is a lab splice.

Of course, Yet Another answer is to reject the reel. Few of us have this luxury, but if you do, good on you!
--jhawk

[ 03-15-2007, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: John Hawkinson ]

Posted by Christopher Meredith (Member # 3767) on 03-15-2007, 01:09 PM:

I was just thinking about this this morning.

I've always left them alone, mainly for rpesentation reasons. Sure, a line across a frame doesn't look good, but at least it's only one frame affected. If you cur it out, then you lose a frame, and have tape lines over the two frames on either side of it, making the imperfect section three times longer than it was to begin with.

Also, I used to have a booth full of those straight-gate Strong traps and those would lose focus slightly when a splice (even a really good one!) would go through. So I always left them in. Never had one come apart and never had any sound problems as a result.

Posted by Kevin Raisler (Member # 1761) on 03-15-2007, 01:51 PM:

I cut all of them out. Although it is rare I've had them open up on me and cause problems. We use curved gate XL's, tape does not seem to affect the quality of the image. If you keep the dust off the edge of the tape when you store it the lines are not very noticeable, (neumade CLEAR tape works best for my application). I won't use zebra or opaque tapes anywhere.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 03-15-2007, 03:32 PM:

I usually leave them on, but, if I do cut them out, I use Neumade Clear Tape. I haven't had any problems due to lab splices.

Posted by Sam King (Member # 4029) on 03-15-2007, 07:18 PM:

Why can't lab splices be on frame lines?

Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 03-15-2007, 08:08 PM:

I think in most (not all) cases, the splice is made to unexposed print stock, so where a splice will wind up is anyone's guess.

My vote - leave 'em alone.

Posted by Casey Andrews (Member # 4138) on 03-15-2007, 08:38 PM:

i also clear splice them. this is the best way in my mind... but like most of the above said, if it's a new print, leave them be.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-15-2007, 08:49 PM:

It's worth doing a search for "lab splice," there are a bunch of topics where this came up, such as Lab splices removal: good or ugly?. (There are several more.)

In particular, my original post put Brad in the don't-remove camp, but clearly my memory was faulty. Sorry, Brad (I've edited it).

It's funny how most posters so far seem to favor leaving them in. In general, I think the concensus in the past has swung the other direction. "Go figure."

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-16-2007, 02:57 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
In particular, my original post put Brad in the don't-remove camp, but clearly my memory was faulty. Sorry, Brad (I've edited it).

That really doesn't read very clear. If the theater has an ultrasonic splicer, then I think all non-frame line lab splices should be remade on the ultrasonic. Assuming the theater does NOT have an ultrasonic splicer and only has a tape splicer, I am in the camp of "leave it as it is", because the tape lines and physical jump on screen are far more annoying to me. (Plus it looks like the theater had a film break or screwed up at some point.)

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 03-16-2007, 03:47 AM:

I black out visible lab splices with a Sharpie and cover that with clear tape (primarily so the ink doesn't transfer to another part of the print). A dark line is less noticeable than a white one.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 03-16-2007, 11:43 AM:

Garlic salt, onion powder and white pepper go very well together... especially on hamburgers.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-16-2007, 02:48 PM:

Since we use nearly 100% of the frame on scope, ultrasonic splices are to some extent visible even on frame lines, I remove them all. I find the barely if at all visible tape much less distracting than the nasty flash of an ultrasonic splice. A properly made tape splice doesn't jump.

Posted by Justin Gorka (Member # 3727) on 03-16-2007, 03:14 PM:

Thanks for your interest. As I said before we remove ours wherever they are. We don't have a problem with splice 'jumps as our projectors and slpicers are set up properly. Staff are also trained how to make a 'good' spice. So much so if we forget to mark a real change it is a pain in the arse to break down!
I also think a minor 'jump' is preferable fo a green flash (mmm, feel a colection of inuendo's brewing!)
Justin

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-19-2007, 02:17 PM:

i take 'em out unless they're on a frameline or just at the extreme of the flat image area and bloopable. i make my splices so the tape edge is nowhere near the center of the image, and if possible in a dark or busy portion of the frame. they are as good as invisible. yes, they can jump slightly, but so can a poorly aligned lab splice!

Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 03-20-2007, 04:38 PM:

I've changed my views on this in the past 10 years.

Back when I worked for GCC and we had NO digital audio houses, I would remove every factory splice to prevent the audio 'pop'.

Since I now work in an all Dolby Digital location and the audio intrusion point is now moot, I leave factory splices on the frame line in place on a flat film. Anything not on a frame line comes out - and those on a frame line on a scope print also come out. They will always be visable on the screen otherwise.