Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Booth size

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Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 03-23-2007, 01:05 AM:

I am on a non-profit board that is rebuilding a single screen theatre from the walls up. The architect spected the booth as 12x12', I proposed 18x12' and as built it ended up as 9'x12'.

My question is can you fit a simplex XL, sound rack, rectifier, and platter/mut in a 9' wide by 12' deep booth and make it functional?

Thanks for your help

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-23-2007, 02:57 AM:

I work in a 6plex with 9ft wide booth floors and a STRONG setup give you 4 ft clearance from back of the console to the back wall.

With a miniwind 42inch platter setup to the left of the machine and amps in the console rack or even mounted on a wall rack to the right of the machine, a 9x12 room should easily accomodiate such a setup.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-23-2007, 07:49 AM:

I ocassionally work in a booth about that size. That's pretty small. Of course, you can make almost anything work, but you will have a tougher time during show makeup and break down. As Monte mentioned, you might purchase a platter with smaller decks. If you are going to spend some time in there, put sound absorbing material on the walls.

Projection rooms always get 'shorted' it seems, when the project is at the end of the planning stage.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-23-2007, 10:43 AM:

Is this for daily use, or is it for occasonaly screenings only?

I remember reading somewhere that 12x20' was (is?) considered to be the minimum size for a 2-machine booth. You might need/want more space for a platter and could get away with less space with a double-MUT in place of the second machine.

Will the rewind bench be in the booth as well, or is there a separate rewind room? Is there any other equipment (followspot? video projector? slide projector? something else?) that will need to be in the booth as well?

I'm sure that it can be made to work, but I hope that the air conditioning is good in there...otherwise, the operators will be extremely uncomfortable.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 03-23-2007, 10:48 AM:

What usage is the booth going to get (multiple shows each day or just occasional)

If there is only occasional showings a tower system may be more space efficient than a platter.

---

I have used smaller booths than this (with towers) but the film makeup is done in a separate room (or larger booth) onto 6k reels and then wound onto 13k reels. It would not be pleasant to spend much time in the small booths.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-23-2007, 12:40 PM:

I've seen ones down to about 8 feet wide x 6 feet deep, dating from around 1910, but that would have been with a separate rewind room, rectifier/generator room, etc., and only handling 2000 foot spools. I've seen a box that size still working, but that was with BTH machines, which were unusually narrow. It would be very tight, maybe impossible, if working with a tower or platter system. Your one doesn't sound too bad at 12 feet deep, but 9 feet wide does sound unpleasantly tight for a tower of platter, not so bad for two machines.

Where are things that you can't move; door and fire exit, for example? You obviously can't block those. How much height have you got? If you've got enough for a tower that would take less floor space than a platter. If you're working a single machine where is the port? If central then it wouldn't leave you much room on each side; it might be better if it was somewhat to one side. If the port is central and you want to run a platter then you might have to put it behind the machine, as is more common with a tower, rather than to the side.

You could fit digital into that space, but I doubt it that's going to fit your budget if it's for a 'non-profit'.

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 03-23-2007, 01:05 PM:

The booth is going to be used daily.

Long term I'm sure that we will have a digital projector in the booth as well. Since this building is also going to be setup for meeting and speakers we are going to need some sort of video projector as well as an audio mixing counsel.

At this point we can still move the walls to enlarge the booth, but I need opinions other then my own as to why we need to do it.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-23-2007, 01:50 PM:

quote: John Hegel
Long term I'm sure that we will have a digital projector in the booth as well. Since this building is also going to be setup for meeting and speakers we are going to need some sort of video projector as well as an audio mixing counsel.

Is all of this going to have to go into the projection box, or have you got another room for the audio gear etc? Is there going to be a lighting rig, even a simple one? If there is another room then maybe you could put the video projector in there. If it's all got to go in the projection room, then you really do need more space. If you think you're going to need other things 'long term', and 'At this point 'we can still move the walls to enlarge the booth', I'd get it enlarged if at all possible. It's going to be easier now than in a few months, or years timewhen someone, or something, else has established it's claim to the available space.

Apart from anything else, there are potential health and safety issues to working in an inadequate space.

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 03-23-2007, 02:56 PM:

Yes, it must all fit in this room.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-23-2007, 03:34 PM:

My own feeling is that 9'x12' is too small for a digital projector, 35mm projector, a platter (even one with smaller decks) regular 19' audio rack, makeup table (is there also a rewind table?) and all the extras like shelf space, place for the cans, etc. So small, I would try to point this out to the architect, if they will listen.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-23-2007, 07:18 PM:

I just looked this up; the "old" SMPTE projectionist book says that 14x21' with an 8-9' high ceiling is the minimum size for a 2-machine booth and that each additional projector or piece of equipment (e.g. followspot) requires an additional five feet of space (in the horizontal direction, I assume, though this isn't specified).

I think you'll have a hard time finding a projectionist who is willing to be stuck in a 9x12' booth every night. That's smaller than the smallest booth that I have ever seen in a commercial theatre.

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 03-23-2007, 07:40 PM:

If you're running a single screen, why would you want to run a platter? If the machine goes down, you'll be down until it can be fixed. With the second machine you still can get through the show. And a 2nd machine takes up less room than a platter. That's one of the things I learned at the drive ins.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-23-2007, 07:48 PM:

...esp if you had those EPRAD Muts where each window would have a EPRAD setup, so if one side went down, the other one could still do the running, and have a Goldberg bench in the booth rewinding those 13k reels.. as this guy has in his drive-in.

...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-23-2007, 07:49 PM:

But if one projector goes down, he'll be down until he can get it fixed unless you want to have intermissions between each reel. Platters are way better than changeovers any day. Times have changed. Technology has advanced. Getting a platter will at least allow for 20th century technology. Audiences hate changeovers and will throw Coke at your screen if you have a changeover booth.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-23-2007, 07:52 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Audiences hate changeovers and will throw Coke at your screen if you have a changeover booth.

..esp if you miss your changeovers....

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 03-23-2007, 07:53 PM:

My booth is 23'4" x 8'4" with a ceiling of 8'. I run a change-over booth with Magna-Tech PR-135 projectors and have two large video projectors (NEC XT-5000 and Sony SRX-R105) plus a Magna-Tech dubber, rewind bench, desk and a Dolby CP-500 and amps. And I still have some room left.

And a [bs]

load of film too.

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 03-24-2007, 03:13 PM:

Thank you all for your help. I will let you know what happens.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-24-2007, 03:20 PM:

In many locations electrical codes require 3 feet of unoccupied space in front of electrical panels and devices
Also in some locations workplace safety codes require 3 feet of clear space around "machinery"

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 03-24-2007, 04:50 PM:

We had a couple of booths that were around 9'x12' and they were a pain in the arse to lace up and just generally crap to be in. Would get hot as well when the coolant system bust. That was just a projector, platter and sound rack.

Doubt you could fit a desk, a cupboard for trailers/tool box/cleaning material/xenons etc., shelves for storing films, a rewind table, two projectors, a sound rack with access to the back and a platter in such a small space without it being very uncomfortable. Try very hard to get a bigger booth.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-24-2007, 08:08 PM:

quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
Doubt you could fit a desk, a cupboard for trailers/tool box/cleaning material/xenons etc., shelves for storing films, a rewind table, two projectors, a sound rack with access to the back and a platter in such a small space without it being very uncomfortable. Try very hard to get a bigger booth.

...(he want's to use a single machine/platter setup...) I've seen situations like this where the misc equipment were stored in a separate room next, or by the actual booth, if space was limited - even the MUT was stored in this outside area since you don't need the MUT next to the platter all the time...

(to give you an idea on spacing, this booth is 10ft wide and the machine/platter area is sitting in a 11ft width area. With two feet on the operator side for theading, and if the platter would be a foot closer to the machine <and this is the 52 inch deck size> there would be room for such a setup in a 9x12 room area-why of the recommendation of the mini-wind 42 inch decks..)

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 03-25-2007, 03:28 AM:

Didn't make myself clear, you will need space for another projector in future, since the industry seems to be moving to digital. OK you could put it in another room, but that is such a pain especially since the sound rack will be with the 35(70mm?) projector.

If you keep everything to do with handling film and the equipment in one room it makes it easier to control dust and dirt.

I don't have a picture but we had a booth was more cramped than that photo. We had the platter directly behind the projector in the corner and the sound rack about where your door frame starts.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-25-2007, 03:35 AM:

How about a 3 foot wide by 6 feet deep booth housing the projector, lamphouse, power supply and sound rack? Things were so tight I had to put the water circulator in the next room and run the tubing through the wall. That's the smallest I've ever installed or worked in, but I'll bet there are even more cramped installs out there. [Razz]

There are pictures of the Rowley screening room in the picture warehouse here with 2 projectors and a rewind bench in a really cramped room too.

Posted by Cody Martin (Member # 2523) on 03-25-2007, 09:20 AM:

Of course mine isn't a commercial booth, but in my 10x10 area I have the projector, lamphouse, platter, sound rack, metal shelf for trailers, make-up table, and a fountain drink machine with rack. It's cramped, but it is very doable.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 03-25-2007, 11:56 AM:

quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
We had a couple of booths that were around 9'x12' and they were a pain in the arse to lace up and just generally crap to be in. Would get hot as well when the coolant system bust. That was just a projector, platter and sound rack.

Sounds to me like the now Cineworld, Haymarket in London. I’ve seen those two dreadful cramped boxes, made small to allow a spacious licensed bar area between. This was previously the royal circle in the single screen Carlton Theatre days. The old original narrow and cramped projection room above the upper circle was bad enough with three projectors and two spot/effects machines, and nearly the whole rear wall with the duplicated Westrex magnetic and optical valve amplifiers. Now there is plenty of room in that box with just a single Kinoton projector and platter installed.

There’s an old Odeon South of the Thames, two of the boxes have the platters on floor level as you enter the room, with the projector and sound rack on a raised platform.

My old cinema in Cranleigh had a small box until incorporating the old rectifier room on the left hand side and the old non-sync room on the right hand side by having the walls removed.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 03-25-2007, 01:33 PM:

The Baronet in Bethesda, MD where I spent several summers. We used to talk about the booth being so small we wore the projectors. The theatre was demolished for construction of a metro station.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 03-25-2007, 04:48 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer

Audiences hate changeovers and will throw Coke at your screen if you have a changeover booth.

C'mon Joe, that's just not true. The audience cannot distinguish between the two if the changeover booth is well run. In all my years in the booth I've never met any customer who knew we changed machines about every 20 minutes. In fact, IMO, a smooth changeover is better than a splice on the screen.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 03-25-2007, 05:11 PM:

I was at Cineworld Wandsworth as a projectionist. Similar situation, the 'VIP' seating and bar area has prevented a single booth, instead there are five, two spacious and three cramped.

I applied for a trainee projectionist job at Haymarket a couple of years ago but didn't get it [Mad]

Haven't been in the two lower booths there, but your description further confirms my view that the stalls conversion is terrible. The upper booth is pretty spacious, remember them having a couple of spotlights in place of the projectors. The old bar was tucked away by the entrance to screen 2, think Virgin opened the current location.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-25-2007, 06:47 PM:

Robert, this link should help you understand just what Joe meant when he said that audiences will throw Coke at a screen. Study it carefully.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 03-26-2007, 01:54 PM:

quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
I applied for a trainee projectionist job at Haymarket a couple of years ago but didn't get it Haven't been in the two lower booths there, but your description further confirms my view that the stalls conversion is terrible. The upper booth is pretty spacious, remember them having a couple of spotlights in place of the projectors. The old bar was tucked away by the entrance to screen 2, think Virgin opened the current location.

Classic Cinemas converted the Carlton Haymarket into three screens in 1972. Screen 1, had 70mm installed with a pair of Cinemeccanica Victoria 8 projectors on changeovers, 35mm was always shown on one machine with a tower. Later a platter was also installed just for 70mm use. Screens 2 & 3 combined projection box was very large with 35mm Victoria 4 projectors and towers.

Classic became Cannon Cinemas, then Virgin, UGC, and now Cineworld. During UGC ownership, the 70mm equipment was removed, and each screen was replaced with a single 35mm Kinoton projector and platter.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 03-27-2007, 06:43 AM:

The staff at Haymarket are very good, always polite and there are never any presentation problems. Suprised that 70mm was removed, seems pointless. Screen 1 has a Christie digital projector now (edit: it does), one of the lower booths might as well.

[ 03-30-2007, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan ]