Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dolby debuts new trailer on YouTube

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-29-2007, 06:03 PM:

I guess this was originally posted in December but I read about it in this month's Boxoffice.

Dolby's new "CITY" trailer

If you look at the related links, there are two "work in progress" versions.

I thought about posting this in the random video links thread, but thought it deserved its own thread.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-29-2007, 06:12 PM:

I first saw this played before Bridge To Terabithia at the Star Cinema in Johnson Creek, WI... on their large THX certified screen.

It's a pretty cool trailer, I actually emailed Dolby on the small chance there was a way to get this on DVD... no reply of course. [Wink]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-29-2007, 07:29 PM:

I don't think by the time we have flying cars that we'll still be using ol' crappy AC3. Instead we'll have something from the future, like Dolby Troo HD.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 03-29-2007, 09:50 PM:

Good. Now maybe I can finally get rid of Curious George. [Smile]

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 03-29-2007, 11:52 PM:

Original City represent.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-30-2007, 01:57 AM:

Well, its better than DTS's new trailer...if that says much.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-30-2007, 05:22 AM:

I have always enjoyed all of Dolby's trailers but none of Honolulu's theatres play them anymore. Where has showmanship gone?

-Claude

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-30-2007, 10:33 AM:

That new city trailer is pretty decent, at least in terms of the treatment of the futuristic CGI city. However, I think the treatment of the Dolby Digital logo is rather weak. The original City trailer did more to pump up the brand.

Out of all those sound format trailers, Cimarron and Grand (trailers for THX) are my favorites. Their visuals were great (not to mention outstanding audio) and the logos were treated in a very dynamic fashion. I think THX should get those snipes drafted over to 2K JPEG2000 for digital projection use, if they have not done so already. Sure, those trailers are old, but they're classic. They work. Many of the new ones for various formats just don't have the audio/visual punch of those clips.

Like others have mentioned, it's exceedingly rare for theaters to play a Dolby Digital trailer before a movie.

The only theater in this part of the country that plays them on a regular basis is the Harkins Bricktown 16 in downtown Oklahoma City. Every time I've visited the Cine Capris they've played the Dolby Aurora trailer.

A Harkins Cine Carpis house in Denver that Joe R. and I visited last fall played the DD Stomp trailer -without the digital audio engaged.

What I think has been VERY ODD is how hardly any DVD movies have featured Dolby Digital trailers on them. It's especially odd when you consider Dolby has made quite a few different DD trailers. We got burned out on the mere two DTS trailers that have shown up on hundreds of DVDs. I think I've seen DD trailers show up on only a handful of discs. There's one on the T2: Ultimate Edition DVD. I think there's one on Akira. Wasn't there a Curious George-themed DD trailer on the DVD for Madagascar? As ubiquitous as Dolby Digital has become it would seem like we would have seen a lot more of those various trailers on DVD releases.

As more theaters convert over to digital cinema systems, items like Dolby Digital trailers are going to become less and less relevant. There may not be any fancy name one can attach to 24-bit 5.1 channel uncompressed LPCM, but I'll take it over a 320kb/s lossy DD 5.1 track any day.

With that stated, it seems like Dolby and DTS are both just going to have to start coming up with sound format trailers that may only be viewed in home theater settings and in relation to exclusive home audio formats like Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.

If THX can get their marketing act together, they can at least keep some level of prominence as theaters embrace all digital gear. The Texas Instruments' DLP "explosion" trailer and Christie's digital projection trailer are both pretty cool, but they still don't give me that awesome chill I get from the THX Cimmaron clip.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM:

To Bobby's point I wonder if with Digital Cinema gaining a foothold if THX or another "sound system" will get a foothold again. Since all theaters will be uncompressed digital sound, you'd think there'd be an opportunity for something to market.

How about BMSS (Brad Miller Super Sound)?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-30-2007, 10:47 AM:

I bet it sounds really good on THX certified computer speakers.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-30-2007, 11:00 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
To Bobby's point I wonder if with Digital Cinema gaining a foothold if THX or another "sound system" will get a foothold again. Since all theaters will be uncompressed digital sound, you'd think there'd be an opportunity for something to market.

THX is not a sound encoding and compression format like Dolby Digital or DTS. The certification program mandates a certain level of quality for hardware used in the booth rack and mandates a lot of audio design criteria for the auditoriums.

With that being noted, THX has every bit as much relevance in digital cinema equipped theaters as it did in film based theaters. In fact, the higher quality audio tracks offered by digital cinema makes it even more crucial for the movie theater to be using good hardware and auditorium design.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-30-2007, 03:14 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
it's exceedingly rare for theaters to play a Dolby Digital trailer before a movie.

Not around here. We play the Dolby trailer on 100% of our shows, even the kiddie matinees.

With lots of movies, it's the only chance to really "show off" the sound system.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-30-2007, 05:07 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
There may not be any fancy name one can attach to 24-bit 5.1 channel uncompressed LPCM, but I'll take it over a 320kb/s lossy DD 5.1 track any day.

Is 320kb/s technically the bitrate it's at on the film?

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 03-30-2007, 05:35 PM:

That was a pretty cool trailer. Thanks for the link!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-30-2007, 05:57 PM:

quote: Mark Strube
Is 320kb/s technically the bitrate it's at on the film?

Yes. The 5.1 audio track in theatrical Dolby Digital is encoded at 320kb/s. FWIW, the data on the film strip has a total of around 550 kilobits per second available. That extra data is used for error correction and data redundancy.

FYI, DD 5.1 on DVD typically runs at 448kb/s or sometimes 384kb/s. It can run at higher rates on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, sometimes at the 640kb/s maximum rate. Dolby Digital Plus allows higher bit rates and more discrete channels of audio. Dolby TrueHD is a lossless compressed format that runs at even higher data bandwidths.

Posted by Blaine Young (Member # 3992) on 03-30-2007, 06:46 PM:

384k/bs is also the datarate for Dolby Digital on LaserDisc (if anyone remembers what they were...)

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-30-2007, 07:01 PM:

So I'm curious as to why DTS doesnt sound WAY WAY better (even on DVD) at 768k or 1536k?? I have quite a few DVD's that were DTS ONLY soundtracks and they maxed out the bitrate at 1536. They sound good...but in my opinion, not THAT much better. Anyone know whats up with that?

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-30-2007, 07:54 PM:

Well, DTS is a completely different audio compression algorithm, with different weaknesses and strengths. It probably requires close to that 768 to sound respectable. I haven't tried it myself, but I'd assume DTS at 384 or 448 might not sound so hot.

quote: Bobby Henderson
It can run at higher rates on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, sometimes at the 640kb/s maximum rate.

Believe it or not, there's some HD local stations that encode their DD audio at that bitrate. (Specifically from what I've seen, some ABC locals.) I don't know if that's the rate at which it's coming to them from the network, but either way, I won't complain. They'd probably be fine using 448 and giving the video a smidgen more bitrate; although if the locals are forced to re-encode from a different digital format I can understand going with the highest bitrate possible. Incidentally, that's also the bitrate the Xbox 360 uses to output all of its digital audio. (Which actually causes problems with HD-DVD's that use Dolby Digital Plus... their encoder is set wrong, and applies dynamic compression no matter what. They've supposedly been working on a bug fix since fall, but that annoying issue made me get a regular stand-alone player.)

Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 03-30-2007, 08:14 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I have always enjoyed all of Dolby's trailers but none of Honolulu's theatres play them anymore. Where has showmanship gone?

I don't consider screening Dolby trailers part of showmanship. Particularly if the image has is not up to par.

I got tired of them. At least THX had enjoyable ones with the Tex character.

Also there were many times when a Dolby trailer finished that someone would utter "Hey I have the same thing at home" or "My system has more bass". Dumb comments but still..

To quote Martin Hart of Widescreen Museum
"And fer gawd's sake, turn down the volume on those horrible trailers and digital sound promos."

I agree.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-30-2007, 08:16 PM:

quote: John Koutsoumis
Also there were many times when a Dolby trailer finished that someone would utter "Hey I have the same thing at home"

And in higher bitrate! [Big Grin]

::ducks::

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-30-2007, 09:17 PM:

quote:
So I'm curious as to why DTS doesn't sound WAY WAY better (even on DVD) at 768k or 1536k?? I have quite a few DVD's that were DTS ONLY soundtracks and they maxed out the bit rate at 1536. They sound good...but in my opinion, not THAT much better. Anyone know whats up with that?

A lot of it has to do with the audio material itself. Significant portions of movie audio tracks are made up using material that isn't exactly great in terms of audio fidelity. Old, canned sound effects, audio used from location and more can bring overall quality of a mix down a peg or two.

DTS, particularly in its higher bit rate form, usually reveals greater differences than Dolby Digital on music material.

quote: John Koutsoumis
Also there were many times when a Dolby trailer finished that someone would utter "Hey I have the same thing at home"

quote:
And in higher bitrate! [Big Grin] [Razz] [thumbsup]

That's at least one thing where "digital cinema" has the upper hand -provided if bit rate is really a valuable marketing commodity.

The average Blu-Ray 1080p disc has a audio/video stream that typically has a max of 30 million bits per second. A JPEG2000 movie can run up to 250 million bits per second.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-30-2007, 09:35 PM:

Eh wot? According to blu-ray.com the basic data rate for Blu-Ray is 36mbps, and BD-ROM movies (video/audio combined) run at least 54mbps.

quote:
According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-30-2007, 09:59 PM:

I think he's talking about the average bitrate of BD releases so far. The players are capable of reading a 48mbps A/V stream from the disc, but they rarely utilize that. The disc authors are using multi-pass encoding, so I'm sure there may be some cases where certain scenes get close to that, however it's hardly sustained. Also, keep in mind, the 48mbps number is for combined audio & video... with multiple HD and uncompressed audio formats on one disc, your average video bitrate isn't getting anywhere near 48mbps.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 03-31-2007, 01:33 AM:

....and this is the reason I am waiting before jumping into the HD deal. Remember when non-progressive DVD players from Toshiba sold for $499? You couldnt get $3 for it now. As soon as the players get to 3rd generation or so, I'll jump, but I want them to maximize the potential of the format...or at least get close before I shell out $$. $1000 for a 1st gen blu-ray player? i think not.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 03-31-2007, 09:28 AM:

I got a brand new 2nd gen HD-DVD player for $389 which isn't bad at all (the price has since gone even lower), but now I'm hedging my bets on HD-DVD eventually winning... so there's some risk. But I'm definitely enjoying it quite a bit.

Posted by Bastiaan Fleerkate (Member # 3826) on 03-31-2007, 10:33 AM:

quote: Mark Strube
but now I'm hedging my bets on HD-DVD eventually winning... so there's some risk.

I am waiting for the hybrid HD-DVD/BLU-RAY drives... I think BLU-RAY sounds a [bs]

load better... just like X-ray, Stingray, Ray Charles, etc. it's just cooler than HD-DVD [Razz]

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-31-2007, 03:23 PM:

Hmmm...has Dolby abandoned its Sound Mark? I didn't hear it in this trailer.

I don't like that so many of these snipes emphasize the loudness factor that digital sound offers.

On the other hand, DTS Sonic Landscape was a little too minimalist for my taste.

I liked Dolby's Egypt trailer and Aurora a lot. Dolby's Rain was okay...but strange.

Posted by Bastiaan Fleerkate (Member # 3826) on 03-31-2007, 08:01 PM:

I enjoyed the Perpectives trailers to... The old City and the new City Redux trailer are much better though...

The train trailer is also good. You must see the long version. The short version is [sleep]

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-02-2007, 03:58 PM:

quote: John Koutsoumis
I don't consider screening Dolby trailers part of showmanship. Particularly if the image has is not up to par.

Absolutely, I think showing the digital sound trailers is all about showmanship. Theaters in the Milwaukee area rarely show them anymore, probably because they don't want to expend the great effort it takes to put them onto the film. [Roll Eyes]

If nothing else, showing the digital sound trailer after the lights have dimmed and the inane advertising has gone away is a good segue into the movie trailers and main feature. Granted, frequent movie-goers may get tired of seeing the same trailers week after week, but that's a good reason to have multiple sound trailers to choose from, right?

Of the THX Trailers (which are rarely shown as well, which doesn't make *any* sense at all), I like Cimmarron the best. The impact that the initial light spray has on people is pretty cool to watch! [Smile]

Cavalcade (liquid metal) is nice because of the discrete raindrops. The Simpsons one is a fun classic that would be great to pull out every once in a while when people get tired of the others.

Having a great presentation of picture and sound is a well-made cake. Adding things like curtain openings and digital sound/THX trailers is icing on that cake. When a theater doesn't play the trailers, I figure they're having trouble getting the cake right, so there's no need for them to apply the icing...

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 04-02-2007, 04:08 PM:

quote: Scott Jentsch
The Simpsons one is a fun classic that would be great to pull out every once in a while when people get tired of the others.

It'd be real cool if some theaters made an effort to play this before The Simpsons Movie. It'd be even cooler if there was a special Dolby and/or DTS trailer made specifically for it this summer. [Big Grin]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-02-2007, 05:16 PM:

I like sound trailers too, but a) I've had great difficulty in getting trailers from Dolby (I've had better luck scavenging them from theatres that never play them) and b) multiplex theatres often have multiple sound systems (e.g. some houses equipped for digital and some not) and each print move would require a sound trailer change. Also, digital systems aren't 100% reliable, which would mean that a print with a bad digital track would need to have the digital trailer pulled.

The biggest problem, though, seems to be getting the trailers themselves.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-02-2007, 06:11 PM:

quote:
It'd be real cool if some theaters made an effort to play this before The Simpsons Movie. It'd be even cooler if there was a special Dolby and/or DTS trailer made specifically for it this summer. [Big Grin]

Such a themed Dolby or DTS trailer could be a possibility, but highly unlikely. If anything new was to occur, I would bet on a new Simpsons' themed THX trailer.

THX has had more luck with getting trailers tied to movie releases.

How many people saw the Waynes World THX trailer? The clip doubled as a trailer for Wayne's World 2?

Currently a Shrek-themed THX trailer can be seen in a number of theaters. It kind of follows along the same joke originally made with the Wayne's World THX trailer. Except this time it's not Wayne and Garth humming the THX "deep note," but Shrek and Donkey doing it instead, using kazoos.

The Simpsons lampooned the THX Broadway trailer in an actual episode of the show and that segment essentially makes up the trailer THX offers to theaters to play. My hope is that 20th Century Fox and THX at least get a new JPEG2000 version of the trailer made prior the summer release of [i]The Simpsons Movie[/].

quote: Scott Jentsch
Absolutely, I think showing the digital sound trailers is all about showmanship. Theaters in the Milwaukee area rarely show them anymore, probably because they don't want to expend the great effort it takes to put them onto the film.

That's certainly the main reason why the trailers don't get used. If you don't bother with any of that THX, Dolby Digital and DTS promo stuff you don't have to fool around with the film print when moving it from one house to another.

Those excuses are essentially gone when it comes to digital cinema systems. It is exceedingly easy to drag and drop those trailers onto the time line right where you want them. There's one problem. THX is the only one out of sound oriented trailers that has any relevance in digital cinema system. No need for Dolby Digital or DTS trailers in a digital projection setup since the audio is uncompressed LPCM.

Here in Lawton, everyone got used to seeing the DTS flying disc trailer over and over (but it was still better than "sonic landscape"). Now it's mainly those Christie Projectors and TI DLP trailers instead.

Does anyone else think the "Digital Digital 3D" trailer is a bit overblown on the bass side of things? Jeez.

Posted by Bastiaan Fleerkate (Member # 3826) on 04-03-2007, 08:23 AM:

quote: Scott Norwood
The biggest problem, though, seems to be getting the trailers themselves.

I live and work in the Netherlands and I don't have any difficulty getting Dolby or DTS trailers on 35mm. You only have to e-mail them and they send you the amount of trailers you want. At CinemaExpo in Amsterdam you can ask for the trailers at the booth of Dolby and I think you can do the same at ShoWest.