Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Digital sound follies

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Posted by Large on 05-30-1999, 03:13 AM:

I got this from a friend of mine. I thought you all would like to read it.

Martin (1TRIANGLE) May-14 6:31 pm
To: ALL
#299. 1 of 1

According to Bruce Snyder at Fox," as long as a DTS player is
hooked to a processor it does not matter what your sound is like as
long as you can say that you have digital."
We have been in a week long discussion with Fox over the fact that
the indoor theatre in the same town we are in did not have digital
and
it was said by Lucas Film that which ever theatre in town had
digital,
got Star Wars.(we were willing to present Star Wars in digital.)
When the UA theatre was caught not having digital it was said by Fox
that we would get the print.Ua moved a DTS player from one of their
other theatres that was not getting Star Wars. It was also said that
Star Wars had to show on your biggest house. Thay put the DTS
player on the #3 screen with 178 seats. When this was made known
to Fox ,UA lied and said that theatre had 292 seats. when we called
them on it they moved it to their big house with 340 seats. Their
sound system consist of KT 700 Kintec processor,Kintec amps and
speakers and 20 year old wiring with a DTS player hooked to the mag
inputs. Needless to say with the 2/3 octave eq and the less than
adaquate amps and speakers and the DTS player being wired through
the mag inputs the sound is very flat and dry (no highs or sub)They
are also proud of the rest of their booth as they are running
Christie
AW2 platter that dumps at least one film a week in the floor, and a
Christie CH 20 lamphouse with a 2000w bulb on a screen that's over
34 feet wide (no wonder we always get compliments on how much
brighter our picture is at the drive-in).
We sent a THX and Dolby certified sound engineer into their theatre
the other night to observe their presentation and his report was as
follows:
They were constantly adjusting the volume up and down(maybe to
protect the speakers?) Thay film went out of frame in the middle of
the movie and they had to stop the projector to straighten it out.He
said if he had paid money to see a film there ,he would ask for his
money back and drive 45 miles to Charlotte to another theatre or ask
the manager when the drive in would have the picture because he
would wait and see it there. He said there was no feeling to the
sound
what so ever and could not get into the movie because it sounded so
bad compaired to other theatres.
This theatre advertises that they have Dolby stereo on their web
site.
they do not ,our sound engineer friend know this and their most up to

date sound system is the Kintec system.
He called Dolby himself to inform them of the false advertisement
and evedently they are not interested because they are UA with over
2000 screens and they can get away with murder.Also we tried to
contact DTS to let them know about the bad advertisement that they
are getting and they don't seem to care either.
TIME LINE
Monday morning:
I called Lucas Films and asked if the sound quality and picture
presentation would be important.
Lucas Films: yes ,we have set standards and expect them to be
followed. Fox has total discression over this film and we trust them
to
do what is right. If you have a problem you need to talk to Tom
Sherak at 310-369-3583.
I called his office , a couple of hours later I was called back by
Bruce
Snyder.At first he told me that all drive-ins have horrible
presentations,and also that I was not told that no drive-in in the
country would not get the film on the first break. He said that UA
did
have a full digital system and we informed him that they did not.He
told us to send someone into the theatre to see what they did have
and if they had lied to him, Star Wars would be our picture.
TUESDAY:
Bruce called back and he said he had a conversation with the head of
UA and they assured him that they had replaced all of the wiring and
speakers 2 years ago and they had just recently added the DTS
player.
Tuesday Night
The sound engineer we sent went into the theatre(we got away with
this because he was friends with thw manager)
the manager took him and showed him the new DTS player they had
just out in on May 3,99. It was hooked to the wiring and processor
that had been there since 1985,and that the DTS player was hooked
up on the #3 auditorium.178 seats when it was suppose to be on the
big house.
Wednesday morning:
We called Bruce and told him what the sound engineer found and he
wanted to talk to the sound engineer so we gave him a number to
contact him. He called us back and said he had talked to the sound
engineer and had been in contact with UA and they told him that the
sound engineer must have been in the wrong auditorium because it
was on the 292 seat house (this auditorium had mono) So they lied
again.
He also made it known at this point that he was friends with the
heads
of UA and could not believe that they would risk telling him a lie
and
jeprodize thier relationship with Fox over one small theatre in a one

horse town.
Bruce then said that UA had to give him a certified statement from a
qualified sound engineer stating that thay had a full digital system
throughout their biggest house.
UA's in house sound engineer Rick Stien sent a report to Fox stating
that the digital system was in place in the largest auditorium and
had
been for a couple of years now.(another lie that he fell for)Their
own
manager proved this not to be true.
THURSDAY MORNING:
I called Bruce and informed him that the DTS was still on the #3
auditorium. He wanted me to send the sound engineer back into the
theatre and go see if he was looking at the wrong auditorium.This
pissed off the sound engineer at this point because this has been his

line of work for years and is THX and Dolby certified.He already knew

what he was looking at and did not appreciate this guy telling him he

was wrong because UA was trying to cover thier asses. At this point
he said hhe was willing to testify in a court of law as to what he
had
seen.
Thursday afternoon:
Bruce called back and said he demanded a TAP alignment from UA
the terms however would be that Fox would not pay for it .
It was agreed to that if UA was found not to be true digital then UA
would pay for the TAP alignment and I would get the picture if it was

found that UA was digital them I would pay for the TAP alignment and
I would not get the picture.
This was all well and good until 30 minutes later Bruce called back
and
said" we are not going to do the TAP alignment UA had assured me
that they have moved the DTS to the #1 auditorium and as long as it
is a DTS player hooked to a processor I do not care what the sound
is like ,as long as they can say they have digital".
the moral to the story is: Presentation does not matter as long as
you are a major chain or a drive-in that does not have stereo sound.
There are two drive-ins in North Carolina that will be getting Star
Wars
on the break that has mono sound(speakers) Their competition is a
brand new Eastern Federal theatre that is fully digital and stadium.
So
I guess we need to remove all of our stereo equipment and reinstall
the field speakers then we can be day and date with the 5 screen UA
dump.
SOUND DOES NOT MATTER!!
Martin

Posted by Brad Miller on 05-30-1999, 03:15 AM:

WOW! What a load of crap. Here's something interesting...it seems here in Dallas
that virtually all of the TAP inspections on the opening couple of days are
scheduled at AMC theaters! Anyone know who decides which theaters get
scheduled for TAP evaluations (not pre-movie alignment, but actual public
performance evaluations.)?

As to the UA theater with the Kintek fake digital system, which one is it? I am
wondering just how small of a town and run down the place is. But on another
note, UA did get more Star Wars playdates than any other theater chain. Wonder
how much UAs patronage to THX sound systems had to do with that. But Martin
is right, as I've been to THX certified theaters that have absolutely horrid sound. If
Lucasfilm wants to keep selling the whole THX package, they better start
requiring these older THX theaters get upgrades...like SR and digital! I know of
current licensed THX theaters that: doesn't have even one subwoofer, an echo
that blurs dialogue, loud hum and/or buzz, a port hole seal that mine as well not
even have glass and there was one that didn't even have functioning surrounds!
(The surrounds in that theater are working now, but were out for a few months.)

Posted by Martin on 05-30-1999, 03:15 AM:

THIS THEATRE IS IN NORTH CAROLINA. A TOWN OF 15,000 AND
COUNTY WIDE 60,000.
THANKS FOR POSTING THIS FOR ME,I TRIED TO MOVE IT TO THIS
BOARD AND LOST IT A COUPLE OF HOURS AGO.
REMEMBER THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION.
BTW:A FRIEND OF MINE THAT OWNS ANOTHER DRIVE-IN WITH
FULL STEREO CALLED ME TONIGHT AND SAID THAT THE 4
SCREEN IN THE TOWN WITH HIM IS GETTING SW WITH FULL
MONO!!!
WE WILL TRY TO CONFIRN THIS AND GIVE MORE UPDATES.
IF ANYONE KNOWS ANY LOCATION WHERE MORE OF THIS
GARBAGE IS GOING ON, PLEASE POST ON ONE OF THESE
BOARDS!!
MY FRIEND THAT OWNS THE OTHER DRIVE-IN IS VERY UPSET
OVER THIS SITUATION BECAUSE HE WAS ALSO TOLD THAT NO
DRIVE-IN WOULD BE GETTING SW ON THE BREAK BUT FOUND
OUT ABOUT THE 2 MONO DRIVE0INS THAT ARE GETTING IT IN THE
SAME TOWN WITH A BRAND NEW 14 SCREEN DIGITAL THEATRE.
LIKE I SAID "SOUND DOES NOT MATTER."

Posted by James on 05-30-1999, 03:16 AM:

Interesting Brad...A friend of mine who worked for UA in Colorado told me that
UA wasn't certifying any more theatres for THX and was de-certifying existing
theatres as the renewals come up. This was a couple years ago, so maybe things
have changed. Personally, I think THX is a joke...it's marketed as a sound system
when all it really is, is a brand and a set of standards. But that's just my opinion.

Posted by Brad Miller on 05-30-1999, 03:16 AM:

I heard that about UA cancelling future THX construction as well. Can anyone
verify that for sure? I'll try and check it out down here as well.

Posted by Brad on 05-30-1999, 03:17 AM:

My sound man told me some time ago, all you have to do in most case's is pay
your THX license fee, and your certified.
At one time, some of the chains were certifying themselves.

Posted by Large on 05-30-1999, 03:17 AM:

Yes; UA is not constructing any THX theatres. They decertified many theatres in
markets they think don't need the marketing advantage. UA actually had a
crossover made up that replaces the THX crossover in the THX monitor box.
They have only left a few theatres THX certified in large markets like LA, SF &
NY.

UA only has plans to construct two theatres this year. One is a 9 screen in
Pennsyvania and one in Texas. UA will not certify these theatres. If the past is any
indication they will buy one or two Dolby Digital systems and round out the rest of
the auditoriums with the new Sony SDDS 3000 processor. UA just loves that
Sony gives a credit for the amount of money spent on SDDS processors. If you
purchase a great amount of processors you get a credit to purchase other Sony
Audio Video gear for the theare. Therefor Sony gets to place Sony televisions in
the theatre lobbys.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-30-1999, 03:18 AM:

UA is not doing anymore THX installs here in Colorado. They are not getting EX
surround, either. In my personal opinion, UA puts on a horrible presentation only
a notch above what AMC does. The movies is always out of focus, dim, framed
wrong. This has been the case with every single UA theatre I have been to in the
last year. Even when they got a 70mm print of Titanic, it was less than
spectacular! The xenon bulb was flickering really bad and the bulb was also out of
focus. I haven't heard about any DE-CERTIFICATIONS, however. But UA is
not the only one not doing THX anymore. THX is more of a marketing gimmick,
in my opinion.

Posted by Brad Miller on 05-30-1999, 03:19 AM:

I had heard about that Sony credit, but knew no specifics. It figures! Why buy
products that will outperform all others and be reliable when you can buy crap
(because of sales gimmicks) that will require CONSTANT attention and parts?

Sure you save money up front, but how many other people have spent over a
thousand dollars in their first couple of years just keeping up the Christie gearless
projectors in parts alone? The leds in SDDS readers cost about $350 each and
must be changed out every year (two years if you're really lucky and you push
them)!

Let's check this out again...DTS costs less, has better sound, NEVER fails and
the only servicing it requires is on the extremely rare occasion that a cd-rom drive
dies vs. SDDS which costs lots more, has poor sound, fails all the time and
requires servicing to bump up the led intensity levels every few months...plus the
yearly change out!

Now that's smart buying!

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 05-30-1999, 03:19 AM:

Regarding SDDS...according to the folks over on the Motion Pictures Exhibitors
Forum (www.delphi.com/exhibitor/start/) the reason the majors (AMC, UA, etc)
love SDDS is because Sony gives them a higher per seat allowance to calculate
90/10 at if the auditorium features SDDS. Thus higher per seat allowance = higher
house nut = lower 90/10 film rental.
Get it? Once again, for the majors this business is not about providing
entertainment...its about selling concessions and putting those dollars in the till. It's
a sad fact that the only showmanship in exhibition today happens at the
independent level.

Posted by Brad on 05-30-1999, 03:20 AM:

Are ALL mainstream films being released with DTS tracks?

Posted by Brad Miller on 05-30-1999, 03:20 AM:

Yes. All "mainstream" films are in DTS. There are a few exceptions, Sony,
Paramount and Fox don't print their films they expect to bomb in DTS...just SRD.

The price, reliability and quality can not be beat by anyone else. I highly
recommend the system.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-05-1999, 12:37 PM:

The weekend and the night before opening I had to do 15 Tap alignments in two circuits here in Toronto of which 8 were in THX theatres
EX had been added without a recert done and with only 2 JBL8340's on the rear wall. At least each screen got a new bulb before opening and one we made them replace the anamorph
I do question some of the lack of standards that THX lets many theatres get away with

Posted by Brian Paymer (Member # 57) on 06-20-1999, 01:07 AM:

There is one theater I heard of that put in DTS to get Star Wars but it was a center surround auditorium. All the front speakers came out of the mono screen speaker and both the surrounds came out of the mono surrounds. Can people really call it DTS digital with only 2 channels? That seems misleading to me.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 04-17-2007, 09:17 PM:

It has been 2858 days since the last post.

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 04-17-2007, 09:17 PM:

quote:
There is one theater I heard of that put in DTS to get Star Wars but it was a center surround auditorium. All the front speakers came out of the mono screen speaker and both the surrounds came out of the mono surrounds.

We have a few theaters around here that have DTS Units connected To Center surround Systems Except These theaters Don't play the Right and Left channels at all. They Sound A little Weird especially During the Credits.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-17-2007, 10:14 PM:

Wow. Is 2858 days a record longest duration between bumping a Film-Tech thread?

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-18-2007, 01:10 AM:

My goodness, I guess so! That's almost eight years. And several months before I even joined!

Now, watch everyone start bumping old topics...