Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Anyone running Special Venue mixes on the XD10?

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Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 05-08-2007, 04:12 PM:

More specifically, is anyone running 5-screen-channel "Special Venue" mixes on an XD10 in addition to normal 5.1 mixes? If so, I'm curious to know how you have the XD10 hooked up and how you switch from one type of mix to the other.

My theatre has a bit of a difficulty in that the XD10 is digitally feeding a CP650. There is no way to change the output channel assignments on the XD10, and AFAIK no way to change the AES input channel assignments on the CP650. As a result, Left Center, Right Center, and Mono Surround on a Special Venue mix are processed by the CP650 as Left Surround, Right Surround, and Subwoofer (maybe?), respectively.

So far we have solved this problem by requesting custom discs from DTS that reconfigure the Special Venue mix into an 8-channel mix, which is easy enough to do in L.A., but I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2007, 05:38 PM:

Yes, I have done that [Wink]

That is I have DTS XD10s running special venue 5-channel mixes and the system is 5.1 compatible.

The place is the Colonial Williamsburg Visitor's Center (two screens). In fact there are two XD10s in each rack...one just handles the various languages.

The XD10s feed a Panastereo CSP4600/CSP1200 combination. Since the CSP4600 allows one to route their channels any way they please, problem is solved

At the AFI/Silver I have two theatres that have XD10s that feed 5-screen channel theatres. The XD10s outputs go into the CP200 or Panastereo systems via patch bays so again, have the channels your way.

Now in your case, you are a bit scewed since you have it feeding digitally. Your CP650 must have the studio board, the Cat 778 and that does allow full channel for channel assignment but you have to feed it what you want. One of the problems with digital audio is that they are paired and one can't just repatch one channel of the pair unless you do it in the digital domain. There are certainly devices out there that will allow you to do that but it won't be cheap since most are matrixes of some sort with many DSP options on them. From a technology standpoint though it shouldn't be hard to do...if someone would just make it.

On the DMA8 and DMA8 plus, they do allow one to reroute the signal in the digital domain...however, one has to be careful that the surround delay is only applied to the surround channels!

Steve

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-08-2007, 06:31 PM:

You would think that DTS Post would get annoyed enough producing these custom discs and add support for configurable output channels.

What's the availability of the SV mixes? And how do they sound?

--jhawk

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 05-08-2007, 07:03 PM:

Thanks for the information, Steve. I was afraid that the paired nature of the digital audio would be a stumbling block.

John: Based on what Steve said, and my own speculation, it seems that most theatres which play Special Venue mixes don't run into this problem. E.g. if the main processor accepts 8 channels' worth of analog inputs (which the CP650 does not), the channels are easily patched in between processors.

All the Special Venue mixes I've run have been for DTS-70 prints: "Cleopatra", "The Sound of Music", and "Playtime". The only one I sat down and watched was "Playtime", and I believe it adheres to the original mix quite closely (5 screen channels, no surround). Jacques Tati was concerned with creating a very precise soundfield to match his visual gags.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2007, 08:01 PM:

Yes, 5-screen channels, 70mm (shot in 65mm) but a 1.85:1 ratio!

What is annoying with the XD10 is that it now has Le and Re outputs fully assigned BUT in order to have backwards compatibility with the DTS6D-SV, they put LC and RC on the LS and RS channels with the mono surrounds residing on Subwoofer channel. So despite there being channels for all of that, one has to repatch.

I would say you are probably in the minority in that you have a pure digital feed from the XD10 into the CP650 though there is certainly nothing wrong (and quite a bit right) with keeping it in the digital domain.

Steve

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 05-10-2007, 02:13 PM:

I did an 8/70 install a few years ago in Greece. They hired someone from Athens to do the Sound Rack instead of us. Their engineer showed up a couple of days before I had to do the demo film for some Minister of Travel.

Because we didn't get the whole bid, I was told that all I had to do was to just supply the SMPTE output from the projector and the Automation outputs to his rack.

He unwrapped his rack expecting to only hook up speakers, my cables, and then EQ.

He had an XD-10 and a CP650. I told him he had a few issues to deal with. One being my demo film didn't have a DTS disc. He said DTS told him all the 8/70 titles had discs. I said yeah, available for a price, I told him most prints come with a DAT tape.

Then I asked him where the overhead signal is, and how will he get a sub channel from a mix that has no subs on it. The track layout on the tape is: LS,L,C,R,RS,OH.

He rented a Tascam, and we made it through the demo. No overhead, and I didn't ask where he got the sub channel. I think he had some RDL's with him.

Rick