Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: HELP please. kinoton fp30d

This is topic HELP please. kinoton fp30d in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Sheldon Harris F (Member # 3716) on 05-09-2007, 07:15 AM:

i would first like to say, i am happy that i stumbled onto this forum by accident a few months ago.

i work for a university that has two fp30ds. both projectors are used for 3 hours each on Saturdays and Sundays.

PROBLEM: on turning on the machine one of the machines do not ignite the bulb, and when i strike it (ignite manually)the bulb stays lit for about 10 seconds then goes out alltogether. as a matter of fact i was present when it first happened. the film was running and the bulb just simply went out and the film stopped. after i took the film off, i checked the machine (external)then ignite the bulb and started running the film again. it ran for about 10 minutes then the light went out again.

at this time i decided not to use that machine anymore.

thus i am here asking for help to see how best i should deal with this problem and to get suggestions as to what the problem could be.

thank you all

sheldon.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-09-2007, 08:30 AM:

Hi, Sheldon.

Welcome to Film-Tech!

What wattage/type of Xenon bulb do you have, and what is its current draw and voltage when it is running? How do those compare to your other lamphouse that is working fine?

How many hours are on your bulb (you should have a log sheet somewhere, hopefully on the side of the lamphouse), and do you know how that compares with how many hours you generally get before replacing a bulb?

--jhawk

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-09-2007, 08:32 AM:

You say the lamp went out and the machine stopped. The key here is did the machine stop on its own? If so, you likely have a problem with the failsafe since it will stop the projector. If the projector stops, it will tell the lamphouse to turn off.

When the lamp turns off...do the blowers also shut down or does just the lamp turn off? The key to troubleshooting this is to find out what causes what to happen. If the installer followed the factory suggested wiring, then the projector tells the lamphouse/rectifier to turn on.

The Rectifier contactor switch leg is on the 122 and 122A (when 122 is connected to 122A, the rectifier is told to turn on).

The Lamphouse is on the 60A and 60B lines. When 60A is connected to 60B, the lamphouse is told to turn on the lamp.

Both the 122/122A and 60A/60B must connected for the lamp to turn on. In the projector, this is done by Relay re1a (one set of contacts is the 122/122A, the other is for 60A/60B).

Remember, there are lethal voltages present on all of those cables and in and around both the lamphouse and projector....don't poke and prod if you don't have a full understanding of what you are working on.

Again, if the projector is stopping as well, then the problem is likely with some sort of failsafe or perhaps re2 which forms the latch circuit to keep the projector running.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-09-2007, 10:06 AM:

Perhaps you should check the film presence sensor which is located before the last roller on the projector head. There are couple of leds on that. I don't remember exactly but I think when there is film present and enough tension towards the platter or spool both leds should light. If the film is not tensioned enough it will sense no film and I believe only the red led will be lighted. Check it out before you try anything else.
Demetris

Posted by Sheldon Harris F (Member # 3716) on 05-09-2007, 05:15 PM:

i contacted john of kinoton America and he was/still is instrumental in getting the situation resolved.

john pointed me to the small micro switch that sits behind the back of the bulb next to the internal fan. i did a bypass by bridging 122 and 122a on the terminal strip. this turned the rectifier on.

i noticed that just before i bridged the jumper the bulb went out again, but it came back as soon as i made the connection.

i am 30 minutes into "are we done yet?" and the bulb has not gone out.

it might be that switch after all.

i will be giving john a call in the morning.

any other comments and ideas would be appreciated. thanks to all that has and will contribute technically or otherwise to my problem [thumbsup]

sheldon.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-09-2007, 07:48 PM:

This all comes back to what exactly occurs during the failure...that is, if the projector turned off of its own accord then it isn't likely the sail switch (SK5) is the culprit which jumping 122 to 122A will bypass around.

Key things to note are...do the blowers shut off when the lamp is lit now? Is the hour meter advancing accurately.

As I said, there are two paths that need to be satisfied for the lamp to stay lit...one is for the lamphouse, one is for the rectifier.

If the blowers continue to operate normally (turn on when the projector starts, stay on until the lamp is cool) then John hit the nail on the head. If the blowers come on and off or the hour meter is losing time, your gremlin still exists.

Alternately, the relay or related wiring between the lamphouse and projector on the 122/122A circuit may also have an issue and jumping it out in the lamphouse is effectively bypassing it.

With 122/122A jumped, there will be no way to turn off the lamp, including if the lamphouse door is removed, unless you have a separate switch on the rectifier that will break the circuit too (Christie and IREM have such switches...Christies normally are active,...I've found about 50/50 on IREMs if the installer used them...I could see arguements both ways).

Good luck and keep us posted.

Steve