Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Using an oil additive to prolong life of parts such as duralube or slick 50

This is topic Using an oil additive to prolong life of parts such as duralube or slick 50 in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008730

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-26-2007, 11:08 AM:

Anyone every try this? or know of it has been done?

For movements, gears boxes, bearings, bushings?

I was thinking it about to day when discussing oil in another thread. I wonder if it would be beneficial?

mike

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 05-26-2007, 12:18 PM:

Yeah, I've tried Slick 50 in two engines for my car like the stuff is supposedly made for - and both engines blew up!

Stay away from that stuff.

And for the record, no I wouldn't recommend it for projectors either.

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 05-26-2007, 12:45 PM:

Most oil additives (especially ones containing teflon) are either worthless or, worse, harmful. Teflon is a solid and won't stay in suspension and has a tendency of accumulating in pumps and filters and gumming things up.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-26-2007, 01:57 PM:

Teflon is not all bad...I haven't experimented with it in oil but in grease...it seems to do well...like on Century gears. Ever measured the temp of a gear mesh in a Century with standard TU-235 and then measure it again with SuperLube (a teflon type grease)...it is notably lower...denoting less friction. Superlube also tends to cling to the gears better offering longer lubrication too.

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-26-2007, 02:12 PM:

When I use to restore Shopsmith 10er's a while back I discovered Superlube grease worked wonderfully on the main spindle, shaft and gears; it is great stuff! It is a silicone base with PTFE (Teflon). By far the best grease I have seen, however I think it is a little too expensive per unit! About $7.99 per oz in my area. I wish I could find it cheaper.

I'm not saying go wilynily and use only slick 50, but use a smaller ratio, like a 1:20 dilution or 1:40 dilution slick 50 to projector oil.

Last time I got intermittent oil from CPI it looked like water and was just as thin! Then I got some from Wolk and it was like 5W-20 motor oil and amber! I just wonder if any of the companies follow the original specs for oil viscosity when they bulk buy it and re-bottle? Or is it what ever is cheapest that month when they buy?

Mike

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-26-2007, 02:15 PM:

Don't put that stuff or any additive for that matter in your car if it is still under warranty on the engine. Warranties will not cover any problems with the engine if it is found that the problems were caused by additives.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-26-2007, 02:48 PM:

Why not just use the genuine stuff? Why the rebottled who knows what it is?

In a film projector...what is the annual consumption of oil and cost/year in oil if you use the super high priced genuine oils and lubricants? It just isn't high enough to worry about and the sludge I see coming out of knockoffs causes more harm than good....I'd swear the projector would have been better off with running stale outdated oil that has no more lubricating properties left than the crud I've seen in knock offs.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2007, 03:01 PM:

I prefer synthetics over any other type of regular oil/grease lubricant provided there is one available that is the correct viscosity for the intended use. Synthetics tend to cover a wider temperature range and last far longer... they are alot slipperier and generate less particulate mater. Overall your machine will last much longer.

Funny thing about projector oils from Strong is they are ALL the same! If you buy Simplex, Century or Ballantyne you get the exact same oil... we had them tested locally. The only oil we re-package is for the DP-70. Its is the same oil that has been used in them since they appeared and we also reccomend LaVezzi oil in the DP-70 as well if you want to spend the $$ on it.

The only additive I've ever used is Marvel Mystery Oil. But only on 35mm film camera movements. A mixture of 50% mineral oil and 50% Marvel worksgreat on Mitchell movements. Apparently this mixture has been used in Hollywood for decades.

Many new cars have engines that require the use of synthetic oil only and using any other will void the warranty.

Mark

Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 05-26-2007, 03:18 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
they are alot slipperier

Around these parts, you might hear someone say they are a lot "slippier." Sorry I had nothing better to contribute to this discussion.

BTW, there is an old quart of Duralube sitting up in our booth. I've never used it, but someone must have tried it a one point. It probably should be thrown away.

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-26-2007, 03:41 PM:

When ever I have ordered from my local suppliers, they have sent me either CPI oil, or Oil that says ED Wolk on it. I even tell them I want genuine Simplex oil for a Simplex machine and they send me I think what ever they have in stock at the time. I guess I could go through strong and get it. But if Mark is right maybe they are all using the same oil for almost everything out there now (Wrong Strong that is). Here's a good one, I'm getting a century in a few days from Louis, I wonder if I can use my left over oil I have from my simplex? It would be a shame to just chuck it. Anyone need a few quarts of simplex oil?

Mike

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-26-2007, 03:41 PM:

Hmmm....then something has changed. Century oil was decidely thicker and a different odor than say Simplex.

As to DP70...they have traditionally used Shell Turbo.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-26-2007, 05:01 PM:

The only oil we suggest is 30 wt non detergent for soundheads and 10 weight non detergent for Simplex and Century. Our source for this is a mil spec Chevron oil for jet engines. Really just a tight spec with no additives.

My gripe is a mixture of lubriplate and something which sets up dissimiliar metals corrorion in Centurys and, when packed unto the Simplex later guide assembly, dries hard like concrete. Only gasoline will dissolve it. The state of Indiana is full of this, so much so, that I take 10 lateral guide assem blies with me when I go to a new theatre. Louis

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-26-2007, 05:14 PM:

I've seen this subject come up before, and it reminds me of the attitude of a late friend of mine. He bought his two theatres from his father in-law, and acquired many of his maintenance habits from him as well.

For all the years he was in the business, he used non-detergent automotive oil in his intermittents, purchased at the local auto parts shop.

While I understand the motives here, and read the posts with interest, I can't help but imagine that my friend would comment that there had been car oil in his machines since they were new (in 1947), and they're still in service today... running just fine. I wouldn't do it, but it would be hard to argue the point with him.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 05-26-2007, 05:34 PM:

quote:
Last time I got intermittent oil from CPI it looked like water and was just as thin!

CPI oil looks different every time. It's horrid.
Presently we've been sourcing oil from Jack Roe with no problems. Simplex/Century oil be the same thing these days and works swimmingly.
Whether or not the machine can handle it I generally try and get the oil changed every 500-1000 hours.
It's el cheapo so I say, an ounce of prevention, yadda yadda yadda.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-26-2007, 05:47 PM:

(I shoot AMSOIL 5w30 in my vehicles and love the stuff)

AMSOIL - pure synthetic product www.amsoil.com

When I bought my gallon of 5w30 from a dealer, he right off knew that I was planning on keeping my car for as long as I can..

Their tranny oils, fluids and greases are great as well ..

Yes, stay away from additives, for at one time, the auto retail supply places use to stock tons of this stuff, including Slick 50, Energy Release, Duralube, ...et.al. Now, they have all but disappeared..

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-26-2007, 06:37 PM:

I see in the SH-1000 manual they call for SAE 40.
for the super it just says our oil no SAE number.

I would figure that in the projection industry oil would be one of the most important things to standardize.

I guess not.

Mike

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-26-2007, 06:41 PM:

I have one good story on this: Nick Mulone's father once asked me what oil is correct for his Century. I asked him what he used; he said it was 20 wt non detergent which I think is a bit thick. How long? "Since 1948!" he said. My reply is not to change anything. Besides, the thinner oil would probably leak out by now. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-26-2007, 07:46 PM:

A gearbox type Simplex soundhead as well as RCA soundheads absolutely will last longer and perform better on 40-weight as compared to 30-weight.

Steve

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 05-26-2007, 08:55 PM:

quote: Jarryd Beard
Around these parts, you might hear someone say they are a lot "slippier."

Or tell yinz guys to worsh yer hans cause the ohl will gomp 'em all up.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Our source for this is a mil spec Chevron oil for jet engines.

John Williamson once told me a story about when he served in Vietnam somebody was selling this oil to the locals as "cooking oil". Apparantly the government found out when military doctors investgated numerous cases of sudden blindness in the villages around the base. Given what was available on the black market during the war in Vietnam, this story doesn't seem all that far fetched.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2007, 09:42 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
A gearbox type Simplex soundhead as well as RCA soundheads absolutely will last longer and perform better on 40-weight as compared to 30-weight.

Of course 40 weight is better than 30 weight... the heavier viscosity hangs on the gear teeth better. I run Mobil-1 75/90 gear oil in all the Simplex and RCA sound heads that I service... er that I don't have to service any more except for the lateral guide and occasional LED failures. Have been doing this for over 7 years now with not one bronze gear failure on any of those. The actual viscosity of the Mobil-1 is seemingly thinner than its actual equivelent weight.

Mark

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-26-2007, 09:46 PM:

Slick 50 no longer contains teflon. It's now just some sort of
high priced oil

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2007, 10:13 PM:

Hasn't teflon been classified a carcinogen?

Mark

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-26-2007, 10:28 PM:

No PTFE is probably the most chemicaly inert substance on earth with the lowest coefficient of friction (less then 0.1) known to man.
However the chemical perfluorooctanoic acid better known as PFOA;
which is used to make PTFE is a carcinogen.
if PTFE is heated to about 500F and you inhale it you can get a chronic respiratory irritation coined “PTFE flu”
PTFE is used in implants, artificial valves, joint replacements, and piercing, and that's just the tip! It is biologically inert, however again if decomposed by heat the derivatives are detrimental to the health of humans and animals.
Because of the PTFE flu and PFOA DuPont has been in litigation for years, and just to think that stuff was invented by accident in a duPont lab in NJ.
Mike

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-27-2007, 12:47 AM:

The Slick 50 discussion reminded me of a guy I worked with about 10 years ago who used Slick 50 in his vehicle engine. When I left that job he was in the midst of a dispute with the manufacturer of a rebuilt engine that had been installed in his Chevy Suburban. It seems that the engine had experienced a minor overheat due to a broken water hose. The hose was replaced and there seemed to be no other problems. A short distance later the engine suffered a bearing seizure of some sort. All this in the warranty period of the engine. After considerable arguement as to what caused the failure an arbitrater decided to have the engine sent to a lab for disassembly and analysis. Inspection found ptfe or a similar plastic material blocking an oil passage, the report did not get more specific. It said also that there was no evidence of an overheat. But additionally said that there was the possibility the the ptfe was caused to form clumps or whatever due to the heat. Based on that information the arbiter sided with the manufacturer and the claim was denied. Ron said he wasn't happy with the decision but he had to accept it, hasn't use Slick 50 since either.

Posted by Jon Paul Johns (Member # 3443) on 05-27-2007, 07:52 AM:

What do you think about Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid in a Century, Simplex, or a DP35-70.

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-27-2007, 09:20 AM:

The internal combustion engine in the combustion chamber can have a temperature range of about 1500 - 2000 F, however on the lubrication side of the engine the temperature can get as hot as 300F, however if there is a problem with the cooling system then the temp could reach 500F and this could cause PTFE to decompose and I'm not sure what would happen then. If his engine had a cooling issue and it did overheat then that could have been the problem, not the PTFE; the PTFE was affected by the increase in heat ultimately causing the problem, but the cooling system if operating properly would have not caused it to begin with.
I can't see the temperature of an intermittent or bearing in a projector to get up to 500F; (anyone know this?) so I don't think temperature would play a role if using PTFE.
However after reading this I don't think I'm going to use slick 50 or duralube
Slick 50 (engine oil additives)
Automatic Transmission Fluid

As for ATF, it contains lots of detergents, and antifoaming agents, as well as conditioners. I would not use it.

Maybe single weight gear box oil like 80 or 90W like Mark suggested would work better for gear boxes. I would then be concerned with heat transfer at those viscosities.

I have a lathe at home that uses SAE 30. The company says anything thicker and under heavy load the gears would overheat. Anything lighter and the gears would not be properly lubed and damage would accrue.
Mike

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-27-2007, 09:43 AM:

At the time I determined what to sell, Chevron had a "lubrication lab" in Louisville complete with more than 5 engineers with degrees in this. I took them a gear box and a cutaway intermittent along with speed data and temperature measurements. I also took several samples of commonly available "projector oil."

At the time, Simplex oil was 10% varnish by volume. Louis

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 05-27-2007, 11:04 AM:

MMO (per MSDS) is 70-80% naptha and 20-30% mineral spirits. Good for removing varnish and cleaning things out, but it also evaporates pretty easily. Other than temporarily thinning the oil I don't see anything harmful about it.

A lot of additives are some mineral oil with ZDDP, which is an excellent anti-wear additive. Manufacturers have been cutting back on due to cat fouling, so you might want to add it if you're using motor oil; gear oil still should have good quantities of anti-wear additives. MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide) is another excellent anti-wear additive.

Anti-foaming additives are extremely important in gear oil to prevent air entrainment (resulting in poorly-lubricating milky-colored oil). Additives that contain too much oil without anti-foaming additives (*cough*Lucas*cough*) can hurt the gear oil's performance.

IANAT (I am not a tribologist)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-27-2007, 12:44 PM:

I have a XL that would blacken the oil a week after a changeout, thus, I drained the dirty out then put ATF in the gearing and let it run for a couple of months..with frequent changes to flush out the dirty and bring in the clean.

Amazing that the machine ran tons quieter, a lot less friction involved and got rid of my "oil dirtying" problem... I have a good 45 second coastdown from when the power is cut from the motor..

As Louis mentioned about the varnish: Using that ATF got rid of the years of using Simplex oil that left varnish residue in passages, sleevings, and bearing races.

We're now using an "oil" that is basically is hydraulic oil - thinner and more clearer than the stock Simplex oil from STRONG ...

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 05-27-2007, 02:00 PM:

How often should you change the oil in an intermittent and would it hurt changing it more frequently ensuring the oil is always fresh and clean.

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-27-2007, 02:18 PM:

I change about every week, this might be on the heavy side, I have seen others post on here that they do not change for months, I'm not sure it that is the right way to do it. All I can say is changing often is not going to hurt a thing, other then cost you more money.

If your oil is turning dark black then this could mean your getting metal wear.

I also use a special tool I developed to help direct the draining oil from the intermittent; (Picture is in the "booth tips" thread)it really helps to keep the oil from running all over the place.

Mike

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2007, 03:43 PM:

Well, I've been sold on synthetics for years now. First used Mobil-1 in my 95 Dodge V-10 and this is about when I started using them in projctors. The Dodge always passed emissions very cleanly and the emission quantities never changed over the 4 years and 160,000 miles I drove it. Same for my Land Rover which has an alumnium engine and is required to use Synthetics... and they are very specific on which brands to use with Castrol and Mobil-1 being 1st and second on their list. With 64,000 miles on the Land Rover the engine still runs like new and has always passed emissions by a mile every year.

Mark

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 05-27-2007, 04:47 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
I have a XL that would blacken the oil a week after a changeout, thus, I drained the dirty out then put ATF in the gearing and let it run for a couple of months.

What type of ATF did you use, Monte? Was it Dexron III/Mercon, Type F, or some other type?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-27-2007, 08:04 PM:

No; flushing oil out with fresh is always good. I once had a car with an alumium block and BLACK oil. Oil change every 500 miles for 2500 miles took out all the impurities and from then on the oil was only slightly discolored at the normal oil change interval. This was a used car with 60k miles; I don't think the previous owner ever changed the oil.Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-27-2007, 09:00 PM:

quote:
I have a XL that would blacken the oil a week after a changeout,

Then I would say you have a serious problem with that X-L Monte.... You should have looked for and fixed the problem first.

Louis.....

Was it the alumnium block Buick Engine you had? Those ere pretty good engines and are actually the basis of the V-8 Land Rover engine.

Mark

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-27-2007, 09:54 PM:

Yes! Mark is right, if oil is black when you change it from a machine, whether it is a projector, lathe, mill, or anything with gears, that is an indicator of metal that is in solution with oil; indicating that excessive wear is taking place.

Mike

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-27-2007, 10:16 PM:

1962 Buick V6 Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-28-2007, 02:37 AM:

One way I've seen Simplex Oil blacken is when they will assemble them with shielded bearings...that have lubricant...the oil will leach out the bearing lube and contaminate the oil.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-28-2007, 03:36 AM:

quote:
What type of ATF did you use - Dexron III/Mercon, Type F, or some other type?

Dextron is what I used.

I have to go along with what Steve mentioned is that the front shutter bearing did have shields on it, which afterwards I took the shields off and there was a bit of black crud inside this bearing which I washed out with WD-40 and then shot oil inside the races to relubricate before reassembly.

I still let the machine use the ATF til the fluid remained red, then I flushed out the ATF and put in the regular oil and it's been staying clean ever since.

Heard stories that with the use of AMSOIL on certain motor teardowns that with motors with over 220k miles on them, the mechanics would just put the motor back together and tell the operators that the motor still looks and is tight like new...no major wear factors esp. in the main bearing areas..

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-28-2007, 06:20 AM:

Besides lubrication, oil has another function: removing particles that need to be not there. That is why you have oil changes; it is not because the oil "is bad." In fact, oil can be recycled probably forever, if allowed to stand still in a tall flask and the impurities allowed to settle. It's not worth it, of course. Louis

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-28-2007, 07:27 AM:

Any average oil does reduce friction by a coefficient of 0.025, Some are better some are worse, but when you consider that steel rubbing against steel without any oil has a coefficient of friction of about 0.45 a reduction is needed. The reason why Bronze is uses for bushings and bearings itself and steel have a coefficient of friction of about 0.22, and so when oil is added you reduces that number by about 0.025. (0.195); the difference in size of number may appear small; however in the world of friction it is huge.

If you take motor oil, and put it on a slide and look at it under the microscope, you will see dirt particles, and yes little shards of metal. I have done this before and it cool to see; and is one of the test that material scientist and tribologist do when analyzing oil.

The last I read about oil recycling was that the filtering process is rarely used in the USA anymore to re-fine the oil and reconstitute it back to its original form used in cars and trucks. Because of the tighter tolerances, and demands of modern engines; it can not be reused. However it is used in bunker oil to thin it down and is blended back into fuel oil to burn in your house, it just has higher ash content due to dirt, impurities, and metal flake. Some countries may still use the filter technique and reuse the oil in cars and trucks.
[Smile]

Mike

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-28-2007, 03:10 PM:

quote: Michael Moore
If you take motor oil, and put it on a slide and look at it under the microscope, you will see dirt particles, and yes little shards of metal.

All the better reason to use pure synthetics since they are created in the lab so to say... They are far cleaner out of the bottle... they don't come out of the ground. They also reduce the friction far more than regular oil does.

Stating that steel on steel coeffiient is pretty vague since nothing I can think of runs steel on steel... certainly no car engine and no projector does that I can think of. If the fit is metal on metal then some sort of bearing material.. bronze, cast iron, babbit, or an alloy of some sort is always used. Having built alot of model steam engnes over the years I love steel running on cast iron... like your Super Simplex... Lasts for ever if oiled properlyand the cast iron age hardens... gets tougher with age.

Mark

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-28-2007, 07:26 PM:

Are ball bearings made of steel alloy? do they rub against each other and against the race (also steel alloy)? is that not steel against steel?

I did mention Bronze and steel (0.22).

Mike

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-28-2007, 07:47 PM:

Actually bearings are normally made of steel that has very high chrome/nickel content... the alloy is very very hard. IN excess of RC 65 to 70.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-28-2007, 08:24 PM:

ATF is an excellent low viscosity gear oil which as described above has lots of additives that would make it ideal for use in a projector. I drained our XLs and refilled with Amsoil DexronIII/Mercon all synthetic ATF. When the first machine was turned off after the first 6K reel after the change, it was noticeably freer to turn, so much so that I made a comparison with the other machine which had not been changed and had been off for about 45 min. After running it for a minute or so I did the comparison again, still the synthetic lubed XL was a lot easier to turn. After the second machine was changed they were both the same.
Only problem I can see is that they might be running a frame or two faster.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-28-2007, 10:30 PM:

quote: Bill Enos
I drained our XLs and refilled with Amsoil DexronIII/Mercon all synthetic ATF.

Does it foam up very much? I would also be interested to know if the mechanisms run quieter... without film in them.

One thing I will add is that if you place a magnet in the oil sump and inside the intermittent of a given projector it will drastically increase the life span. These will attract and hold most of the metallic particulate that is generated. This is the main reason why so many DP-70's are still running today and whose gear trains look like new after alost 50 years of use... They had a magnet located inside the movement and in the oil filter located on the pump intake that trapped and held very fine metallic particles. A very fine mesh filter trapped other particles that were not magnetic. Filter and pump magnet are cleaned at the oil change.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-29-2007, 01:35 AM:

Mark, with the ATF usage that I did for the two months on that one XL, there was no foaming - just straight fluid run -almost like water-in the back of the unit.

Sounds like a good tip to use though...have to head to a hobby store and get some magnets to put down in those sumps to contain any metal filings from metal to metal contact..

(like on the V-8 that you actually saw a bar magnet mounted in the upper sight glass that was removable from the outside to clean when needed...)

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 05-29-2007, 01:50 AM:

I was about to ask if Slick 50 is still sold in the US. and ask if someone could get me some , but after reading the threads on it , it appears to be different to what it used to be.

It is no longer available in Australia , I bought some 25 years ago and tipped into my diesel landcruiser , I still have that same landcruiser, it has now done over 800,000 miles with the same engine and has never been touched, it does not leak oil and i put about 1 liter of oil in it over a period of 6,000 miles. I put this amazing mechanical achievement down to Slick 50 , maybe I was wrong ?

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-31-2007, 10:26 PM:

With the synthetic ATF the XLs are definitely quieter and there is no foaming, none would expected since ATF is an extreme pressure gear lube. If any tendency to foam were present an auto trans. would cease to function due to entrained air reduceing hydraulic pressures needed to operate.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-16-2009, 02:22 AM:

It has been 807 days since the last post.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-16-2009, 02:22 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
One thing I will add is that if you place a magnet in the oil sump and inside the intermittent of a given projector it will drastically increase the life span. These will attract and hold most of the metallic particulate that is generated. This is the main reason why so many DP-70's are still running today and whose gear trains look like new after alost 50 years of use... They had a magnet located inside the movement and in the oil filter located on the pump intake that trapped and held very fine metallic particles. A very fine mesh filter trapped other particles that were not magnetic. Filter and pump magnet are cleaned at the oil change.

Mark, Couldn't I just sit a magnet in the bottom of an XL in front of the sump and let it hold particulate simply by virtue of its presence? I mean, it wouldn't have to necessarily be designed to be there, would it?

And do you recommend Mobil 1 as a direct substitute for standard Simplex oil? I was always under the impression that the additives they use in motor car oil would be detrimental to projector parts (although I must admit, it was never explained how moving parts in a car would not be damaged by the oil but using the same oil on projector parts would damage them).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-16-2009, 08:38 AM:

Yea, just place a magnet near the oil intake. No, Mobil-1 is still too heavy of weight to circulate properly... There are synthetic oils that will work however. I use Mobil-1 as an assembly lube when rebuilding projectors. If the machine sits a while the Mobil-1 doesn't dry up and turn to goo like regular oil does. In sound head gear boxes Mobil-1 Gear oil(like you'd put in a differential) does however work really, really well. I've always felt that even the SAE 40 weight oil is too light to stick very well to the bronze gears as they go around. The gear oil very definately does stick to the gears. It also never turns ransid.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-16-2009, 02:31 PM:

Wonder if you could use 0w/30 synthetic, but the real trick is find 10w hydraulic oil - what a some dealers use when selling their own projector oil.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-16-2009, 05:04 PM:

When I was at CLACO I took some Simplex oil and had it analyzed. It was just pure mineral oil is all, about SAE 9 in weight. There are equivelents from Chevron, Shell, and others.

You can also get synthetic compressor oil and to be honest thats what I'd be using in my Simplex's. Put a magnet inside the movement and one at the bottonm of the sump and do a once a year oil change, perhaps once every two years... at least on those Smiplex's that don't leak much...

Mark

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 08-18-2009, 12:34 AM:

How is an SEA weight determined by a lab when given an oil sample?

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 08-18-2009, 08:34 AM:

Viscosity varies with temperature, so SAE viscosity is the viscosity at 100degC, and for each SAE grade there's a range of values in centistokes (a measurement of viscosity) that the oil must meet. The W grades are measured at which temperature they begin to flow, a lower number is a lower temperature. The W means Winter, and not weight.

An easy way to measure viscosity is by flowing the fluid through a funnel, as viscosity is closely proportional to the flow rate.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-18-2009, 12:48 PM:

Based on material, temperature and speed, Chevron USA analyzed a Simplex XL intermittent and an SA intermittent for me years ago.

Based on their knowledge, #10 non detergnt was the prime choice. Chevron GST oil, ISO 32.

btw: OLD Simplex oil contained varnish used as a leak preventer. Louis

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 08-18-2009, 06:50 PM:

For whatever reason, the synthetic atf leaks a lot less than Simplex oil.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 08-28-2009, 09:07 AM:

One theater owner I know insists that all his projectors
(Centurys) be lubricated by 'painting' STP on all the
gears with a stiff brush once a month.

I don't know for sure if this is a great idea or not,
but he was convinced by an old theater tech that this is
what needs to be done and there's no changing his mind
as long as the projectors keep running, which they do.

The only problem they've had is that once someone got
a little sloppy and some of the STP dripped down onto
the soundhead flywheel shaft and got into the bearings.
(Simplex SH-1000) The thick STP of course caused the
sound drum to 'drag', badly scratching a print before
they got me in to take a look & see what was going on.

I had to pull the flywheel & shaft and then flush the
STP out of the bearings, and then re-assemble and
properly lubricate it.