Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cleaning a Water Cooling System

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Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 06-23-2007, 11:59 PM:

Hey, I just have a question about cleaning the water cooling systems that we use at my theater. We have both Simplex Millennium and Century Models.

This week I plan to replace all the water in the buckets and give the systems a really good cleaning (by the looks of it, they haven't been cleaned in a long time). I was just wondering what the best/safest cleaning product would be to use. I was thinking of using CLR (there is a lot of buildup on the pump and in the bucket) but I was worried that it may be to corrosive for the tubing/the area around the gate.

Can anyone tell me some good products/techniques that you use for cleaning your water cooling systems.

Thanks

Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 06-24-2007, 03:21 AM:

Greetings My Friend

An ideal cleaning agent, should you be able to find some would be Hydrofluoric acid. This substance generally shifts anything, and is available from Sigma-Aldrich or any other good chemical supplier. Just be careful not to get too much of iton your hands.

From Cambridge Good Morning

David

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 06-24-2007, 06:30 AM:

Josh,

I have found a commercial product for cleaning coffee makers to be very effective and safe. It is called "Dip It" and can be obtained from the local super market. Designed to attack water born chemicals, this product has kept our machinery running for the last 60 years. Our water comes from the city mains and is discharged into the drain after use.

David,

One of the unique properties of Hydrofluoric Acid, although a mild acid, is that it attacks and decomposes glass. This makes storage in glass rather impossible so the flasks are lined with wax lest the acid eat the container. This acid should not be in the same room with costly optical glass equipment.

KEN

Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 06-24-2007, 06:40 AM:

Greetings All

Here is a link to a data sheet on Hydrofluoric acid, should anyone be thinking of cleaning their water cooler with some.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/hydrofluoricacid/basics/facts.asp

Probably best to read it before purchase.

David

Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 06-24-2007, 06:41 AM:

Greetings Kenneth

You are absolutely correct in that HF acid is not the kindest to glass. It is for this reason that I have never, or will never, advocate it's use as a lens cleaner. However it is perfectly accepable for cleaning out a watercooled gate. Providing the gate is not made of glass that is!

From a wet Cambridge,

Goodafternoon.

David

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 06-24-2007, 09:46 AM:

Thank you very much for the information, I will definitly look into those products.

I also read on this site that some people use mix anti-freeze into their water, do you guys think this is a good idea? How long does that extend the "life" of the water compared to using just distilled water?

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 06-24-2007, 12:03 PM:

quote: Josh Rosen
I also read on this site that some people use mix anti-freeze into their water, do you guys think this is a good idea? How long does that extend the "life" of the water compared to using just distilled water?

Although I don't or never have used water cooled systems, I would imagine that if you used the "Red" 100,000 mile anti-freeze mix you wouldn't have the need to change the water or clean the system for several years. Also, you could probably also use Distilled White Vinegar to dissolve any calcium/lime or other deposits in the system.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 06-24-2007, 12:28 PM:

One of the guys at work suggested to me that we use De-greaser to clean it. Would this work?

Also the I probably will end up having to use Tap water instead of distilled water. In this situation, should I look at adding a water softener or something to the water to help slow down buildup?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-24-2007, 01:12 PM:

quote: David Graham Rose was the last to post
Hydrofluoric acid

One of the main chemicals used to chemically separate plutonium from its carrier. Also used to make Uranium Hexaflouride! Men... get your centrifuges spinning!
Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-24-2007, 02:13 PM:

Because most water cells as used in the Cinema industry are not closed systems (not air tight by any stretch)...the long life claims of some anti-freeze additives will not hold...even worse...the water will evaporate leaving anti-freeze...as you continue to replinish the system with your mix of anti-freeze/distilled water...it will continue to thicken as the actual ratio in the drum will progressively be more and more anti-freeze.

One can use straight distilled water IF you change it regularly...say twice per year. The great thing about using straight distilled water is that it is about as safe as you are going to find to flush it down the drain...it is JUST WATER. If you add anti-freeze...it becomes toxic waste and should be taken to an appropriate facility...what a pain.

DO NOT USE TAP water! Why not just seal off the tubes now and kill your cooling system properly! Distilled water is cheap...on the order of a buck to $1.50/gallon.

Steve

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-24-2007, 02:35 PM:

What is it that's building up in your system? If it's limescale from hard water then a weak acid should remove it; something like diluted vinegar or kettle descaler, but you have to be careful about whatever you use attacking parts of the system; does it contain aluminium parts, for example. If it's all plastic, stainless steel and bras then most weak acids would probably be ok.

If it's a fungal growth then a weak solution of household bleach, sodium hypochlorite, may be effective.

quote: Josh Rosen
One of the guys at work suggested to me that we use De-greaser to clean it. Would this work?

Only if the contamination is grease based possibly, but this seems unlikely. Degreaser could mean anything from a mild detergent to strong organic solvent, which may well harm plastic or rubber parts.

quote: Josh Rosen
Also the I probably will end up having to use Tap water instead of distilled water. In this situation, should I look at adding a water softener or something to the water to help slow down buildup?

Why will you "end up having to use Tap water instead of distilled water"? Distilled or de-ionised water are cheap, and readily obtainable; why not use them? The last time I bought some a 5 litre bottle was about four pounds over here. If you really cannot obtain them there are a couple of other possibilities, collecting clean rainwater would be one, especially if you don't live in an industrialised area, and the other would be to collect, and melt, the ice which collects in freezers; this is water which has condensed from the air, and should be fairly free of disolved and suspended solids, but you really should use the proper thing.

Is it a fairly modern system; is the manufacturer of it still around? If so I would contact them for recommendations; they know what materials your system contains, I do not.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 06-24-2007, 02:45 PM:

Thanks for the tip, as for the buildup, to me it does look mostly like limescale, so I was also puzzled by suggestion of a degreaser as it is most definitely not grease buildup.

quote: Stephen Furley
Why will you "end up having to use Tap water instead of distilled water"?

I just say this because when I was speaking with one of the other projectionists he said that apparently the things have tap water in them right now (hence the buildup in my opinion) and said we would just end up using it again. However I guess I can show them that it really does not cost very much (although since I am doing 14 projectors, it can add up).

I believe the system that we use is manufactured by strong (all the pumps have the Century logo on them). Other than the pumps they are just large plastic tubs with two holes cut in the lids and rubber tubing leading to and from the projector.

Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 06-24-2007, 03:15 PM:

One of the main chemicals used to chemically separate plutonium from its carrier. Also used to make Uranium Hexaflouride! Men... get your centrifuges spinning!
Mark

Greeting Mark

Indeed it is. To ensure that the pipes for the water cooling and the gate never become clogged again, one could use the liquor remaining from the Uranium separation process. I would challenge anythig to survive that!

From a steaming Cambridge

David

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-24-2007, 03:16 PM:

quote: Josh Rosen
I just say this because when I was speaking with one of the other projectionists he said that apparently the things have tap water in them right now (hence the buildup in my opinion) and said we would just end up using it again. However I guess I can show them that it really does not cost very much (although since I am doing 14 projectors, it can add up).

Your opinion is almost certainly correct. Tap water does vary from place to place; where I am, in London, it's very hard.

Point out to whoever pays the bills that the cost of distilled or deionised water is less than the cost of cleaning chemicals, your time to do the cleaning, and possibly replacement parts if the equipment is damaged by the contamination. Buy the cleaning chemicals from the most expensive place you can find; that should help to make the point. [Smile]

quote: Josh Rosen
I believe the system that we use is manufactured by strong (all the pumps have the Century logo on them). Other than the pumps they are just large plastic tubs with two holes cut in the lids and rubber tubing leading to and from the projector.

I would contact them for advice; you do not know what materials are uesd for shaft seals in the pumps for example, and therefore which cleaning materials may damage them. It does sound like you need a weak acid-based cleaner though. This would be unlikely to harm either the plastic tubs or the rubber tubing; it's really a question of what materials are used in the pumps.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 06-24-2007, 03:25 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
I would contact them for advice; you do not know what materials are uesd for shaft seals in the pumps for example, and therefore which cleaning materials may damage them. It does sound like you need a weak acid-based cleaner though. This would be unlikely to harm either the plastic tubs or the rubber tubing; it's really a question of what materials are used in the pumps.

I shall do that. Thanks for the help [Smile]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-24-2007, 06:00 PM:

Walmart sells 1 gallon of distilled water for between 50 and 70 cents. Louis

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 06-24-2007, 08:15 PM:

Thanks for the tip [Smile]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-25-2007, 05:30 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Walmart sells 1 gallon of distilled water for between 50 and 70 cents. Louis

I know your gallons are smaller than ours used to be, and just about everything over here is expensive, but that's a very cheap price; well worth buying the right thing.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-26-2007, 09:42 AM:

We add Water Wetter from Red Line to the distilled water -- it's a product that is an automotive additive for the cooling system and can be gotten at any automotive store. It claims to increase the heat transfer capabilities of the system and lowers the water temperature. It also seems to inhibit all manner of green growth. Doesn't seem to hurt any part of the system, including the plastic parts of the water pump either. Clicky - Water Wetter