Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Whats the best Microphone Multiplexer System?

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Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 07-02-2007, 12:45 PM:

I want to upgrade my single mic B Chain equip and get a multiplexor microphone system. The only one I'm familiar with is the MMP-10 from Ultra Stereo Labs. I'm guessing there are other products available though - any suggestions?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-02-2007, 05:55 PM:

Dolby has a really sweet system, but it carries a hefty price tag. It comes with a multiplexer box and a preamp box that connects to your computer via USB. As far as I know, you can use the plexer as a stand-alone unit, but it's not as fully featured if you do. If you use your computer, their software is your RTA; no hardware RTA required. One thing that's pretty neat is that you can control exactly which mics are active, not just go from 1-2-3-4-cycle, as with USL. Also, Dolby uses *five* mics, with the fifth being located in the center of the diamond pattern. When I do an EQ, I always put my RTA's single mic in the center of the diamond (actually, I locate the RTA mic at the 2/3 position first, then form the diamon around it) and when I'm done EQing, I plug that mic into my RTA to set SPL. How easy this would be with Dolby's plexer!!

The nice thing about USL's unit is that it is extremely portable. Keep that in mind if that's important to you. However, keeping all those wires on the Countrymen mics untangled can be challenging.

The only other system I know of is the D2, but I know nothing about it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-02-2007, 06:20 PM:

The D2 is a very versatile tool to use
It does most of what the R2 could do in a much more portable fashion
Also Goldline has a MUX unit as well

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-02-2007, 07:57 PM:

Still don't use them. Remember with EQ; less is more anyway. If you've disturbed more than 6, you've gone too far. There is no substitute for experience which will result in less EQ and will eliminate the need for a multiplexer. Louis

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-02-2007, 08:31 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
If you've disturbed more than 6, you've gone too far.

What the crap does that mean? Six what?

A multiplexer is necessary in large rooms to get an average of the room. When using only a single mic, your EQ will be perfect at that one spot, but may be a little (or more than a little) off in other parts of the room. The experience comes in knowing where and where not to place the mics and what to look for on your RTA. Can you tell if one mic is sitting in a "dead" spot and know to move it a foot or two to either side?

Of course you can still get an average EQ by moving the mic around the room and repeating the EQ processes a few times (as suggested by the Dolby manuals), but who has time for that?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-02-2007, 08:54 PM:

What he means is if you have adjusted more than 6 trim pots you have gone to far
aka
less is more

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-02-2007, 09:38 PM:

quote: Ken Lackner
A multiplexer is necessary in large rooms to get an average of the room. When using only a single mic, your EQ will be perfect at that one spot, but may be a little (or more than a little) off in other parts of the room.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
If you've disturbed more than 6, you've gone too far.

I agree about 80% with what Ken said and 20% with what Louis says. Neither posted very much however the posts are very relevant to the thread. In reality it all depends on the system/room being tuned. Also there are a few system/room combinations I've run into over the years that the 4 mic system didn't work well with... but only a few and in those cases I can write off the rooms as being more the problem than the system. There are many, many cases where I tuned a system with a single mic and went back later with the R-2 and re-did what I had done... the net result was always better sound quality and far better speech inteligibility. Also adjusting only 6 bands is an off the wall statement that rarely if ever holds true. If your equipment isn't sensitive to "see" the anomolies you need to correct then its time to retire your gear! You may find yourself having adjusted 6 bands in one system but it may take 9 in the next or 4 in the one after that or 12 in that last room. Sure the less the better but one can also use many bands but just a little bit of correction on each and cut eq is still the better route when doing any eq. Typically this is what I end up doing with the R-2 because of its sensitivity to the system/room combination as a whole. It can be done extremely accurately and repeatably because the R-2 (and D-2) analyzer and its 4 mics are also taking into account many other anomolies that never show up with just using a single mic. If one wants to use just one mic then one better do these adjustments in many different places and listen to the same reel of film each time and decide on the average of how those positions sound through out the room, but this is time consumming and ludicrous to pull off. If all the rooms you're doing are exactly the same(never!)then one might get away with the 6 band only sort of thing and using the same tweeks in each room. In a rush or don't care how it comes out then this is your route to go!

I find that those that really care about their quality of workmanship are the ones that go for the highest accuracy possible and that means more than one mic and a computer based system of some sort.

I have a friend in Chicago that integrates using a TEF analyzer to do his setups. This goes way beyond what an R-2 or D-2 is even capable of but in a differnet way. He is probably the only person using this sort of system to tweek rooms. Gold Line is now making TEF Analyzers in affordable packages.

The very best method to get the "this is how it sounded on the Mix Stage" effect is to get the Re-Recording Mix team to your theater and let them tune it by ear. You'll find it sounds almost like it did on the mix stage and you're also going to find way more than 6 bands tweeked in order to get it right! In the end the actual number of bands tweeked is irrelevant... how the system sounds and getting it reasonably close to the standard X curve is way more important [thumbsup]

.

Mark

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 07-02-2007, 11:28 PM:

quote: Ken Lackner

Dolby has a really sweet system, but it carries a hefty price tag. It comes with a multiplexer box and a preamp box that connects to your computer via USB

I have asked Dolby about this system several times and they tell me its still under development. Is this on the market now? If so, do you know the model?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-03-2007, 08:32 AM:

AT5 is the model.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-03-2007, 09:09 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Remember with EQ; less is more anyway. If you've disturbed more than 6, you've gone too far.

That depends on what somebody else may have fiddled with before you got there.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-03-2007, 10:43 AM:

quote: Stephen Furley
That depends on what somebody else may have fiddled with before you got there.

If you suspect that than one should start from flat and begin over again. With a digital processor its easy as you can just re-load your "correct" settings from your laptop. With the older CP series there are overlays for the trim pots on the eq cards so you can make refrence marks but sometimes these get thrown away. In cases with no refrence like processors such as missing overlays or with processors with no refrence at all like USL JS series and Smart starting over is the best way and doesn't really take all that long. After all at least with the R-2 and D-2 the repeatable accuracy is there so it can be like it originally was. No big deal!

Mark

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 07-03-2007, 02:02 PM:

quote: Eric Robinson
I want to upgrade my single mic B Chain equip and get a multiplexor microphone system. The only one I'm familiar with is the MMP-10 from Ultra Stereo Labs. I'm guessing there are other products available though - any suggestions?

I use the USL multiplexor with the software from the D2 (had to conserve $$ and couldn't go for the full D2) . . . . the D2 actually uses the USL multiplexor but it's modified slightly and has better microphones, I've heard that there **may** be an upgrade path available to bring the standard USL unit up to the full D2 functionality.

I've seen the Dolby system - we had a tech from Dolby out to tune one of our auditoriums for a Disney screening - it's pretty sweet, the software is based on an existing off the shelf RTA package (they simplified the GUI for in-theatre use) . . . I was told that it was still "in development" and only the Dolby techs were using it . . . . I would have considered it for purchase if my dealer had found it was an active product. As a side note the Dolby tech was using a $35 Radio Shack SPL meter to set final levels - he said they calibrate them in the office against a known good meter (why carry a $200+ meter when you can buy one for $35 and who cares if you drop it)