Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Xenon Bulb explosion upon ignition

This is topic Xenon Bulb explosion upon ignition in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 07-05-2007, 08:54 AM:

Yesterday I struck the arc on my Kneisley Xenex II and the bulb exploded. It was a 1600 watt LTI HS bulb with about 900 hours on it. When I called my dealer, they contacted LTI who said the bulb was purchased in 2001, so the warranty is expired. I installed the bulb in my lamphouse in June of 2005, so it hadn't been in the machine very long. The explosion did major damage to my reflector which costs about a grand.

I run a limited schedule, Friday - Monday weekly, and put only about 500 hours a year on my equipment. If I buy a new spare bulb now, the warranty time may expire before I need to install the bulb. Should I "go commando" for a while without purchasing a new spare? Do Xenon bulbs really physically age sitting on the shelf unused?

Steve

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-05-2007, 09:56 AM:

OK, this past week makes me feel like an Osram spokesperson.
Anyhow, Osram says, on p.35 of ENGR_BLTN11.pdf:

quote:

Storage
XBO lamps can be stored indefinitely, as far as can be determined for a product only 35 years on the market. The ambient conditions must however be nonaggressive, for example, no storage temperatures over 50°C no condensation, and a non-corrosive atmosphere. In these circumslances the material properties of quartz glass and tungsten change so slowly that no ageing effects are evident. Where storage effects do occur they usually affect external lamp parts such as the interiors of bases, the bases themselves and the power leads.

I certainly cannot speak to LTI's warranty policies.

--jhawk

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-05-2007, 10:53 AM:

Most bulbs have a 5 year policy from Dealer purchase. Osram seems to be the exception. Stick with Osram if you need long-term warranty protection.

I have personally been bitten by the 5 year policy. I truly don't think anyone's bulb actually ages. I think they have too many lawyers. Louis

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 07-05-2007, 12:28 PM:

We were told to date and rotate our Christie bulbs. In a multiplex, bulbs don't stay on the shelf long anyway.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-05-2007, 01:09 PM:

I think you should badger LTI till you get a reflector replacement or at least a pro-rated part if it... both on the phone, via your lawyer, and on this forum. That lamp was made back in their days of really iffy lamp construction so they shouldn't be argueing much with you about it. They have also defined another good reason NOT to be using their lamps. Brad has had them explode just sitting on the shelf!! Believe me buying the least expensive lamp NEVER pays in the end. You either receive major damage like you have or much shorter lamp life.

Mark

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 07-05-2007, 10:00 PM:

I have never had an issue like that with Osram. I have had a couple of bulbs blow that had sat on the shelf for more than 5 years, and Osram gave me full credit.

Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 07-05-2007, 10:08 PM:

Thanks for the info, sound like I'll be purchasing an Osram for a spare. I've never really understood why this lamphouse came from Kneisley set up to use the short arc lamp, it takes two extra adapters to make it fit. Should I consider switching to the long arc 1600 watt bulb?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-05-2007, 10:36 PM:

The 1600W long lamp and the 2000W standard lamp are either identical or nearly identical from most manufacturers. Christie is one of the few that does make a different vertical 1600-watt lamp (CXL-1600) from their 2000W horizontal lamp (CXL-20R) though one will physically fit in the other's place.

In general, the short arc lamps are more light efficent than their longer cousins though typically with less operating life. If the light is good with the 1600HS, I'd stick with it.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-06-2007, 07:47 AM:

That's a pretty crappy warranty and yet another reason to stay away from LTI.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-06-2007, 08:07 AM:

Actually, Christie has a 2-year maximum warranty. For parts it is 90-days! We recently got burned by that one.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 07-07-2007, 11:32 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
For parts it is 90-days! We recently got burned by that one.

Same here. So much for keeping a spare shutter gear box and when you finally need to use it, it too begins to leak after a month or so.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-07-2007, 12:01 PM:

Just a side note:

Microsoft just released their end-of-year earnings statement.
They had to take a 2 billion dollar LOSS against their earnings because of too many warranty claims against the "X-Box 360"

A loss like that would probably put Christie out of business.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 07-07-2007, 04:22 PM:

Not if they sold as many shutter gear boxes as Microsoft did X-Box 360s.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-07-2007, 04:48 PM:

Our loss was on the LED/CDS assys. These were new with the factory heat shrink on the CDS cells...they wouldn't set to spec. Technically, the warranty (in Christie's Standard Warranty Statement) is supposed to begin when the first end user receives the items...these never made it to the first end user...Christie still denied our claim. How does one support a product like that? That is, how can a stocking dealer stock parts when the manufacturer won't support their own parts?. I wonder if they are going to be like that on the DCinema equipment? Don't keep a spare anything, if it is bad, you are out $7K or more!

Steve

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-07-2007, 06:52 PM:

Hardball works.....especially if you sell enough. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-07-2007, 10:16 PM:

So is the motto "screw the little guy"? I've never heard of a manufacturer denying a claim on a new part, sold though an authorized dealer and not looking at the bill of sale but instead, when the unit was sold to the dealer. The warranty is with the manufacturer, not the dealer...the dealer didn't make the part!

Steve

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-07-2007, 10:25 PM:

That's funny, I just had a LTI 4500w hs blow up in my Xetron Lamphouse on Wed. That too had around 1000 hours on it. Took the reflector with it. This is my second explosion in 1 year with these LTIs. Its either they flicker early or they explode. I use to run Osrams into the ground seeing some theatres with 6 and 7000 hours on the bulb (of course, I was working for an independent at the time). We going back to Osram.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-08-2007, 11:43 AM:

Hi Bernie, where was that? I assume that with that size lamp it wasn't the UCAC, and I didn't know that you projected anywhere else; I thought that you were a musician more than a projectionist.

Due to various problems I wasn't able to get over there this year, but maybe I'll see you again some day.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-08-2007, 10:55 PM:

Christie and LTI should just quit offering warranties.

Strum & Ruger doesn't offer any warranty.
They've always operated under the rule of "If it breaks and it wasn't your fault, call us and we'll talk it over."

I've put hundreds of thousands of rounds through two different Rugers. Never had a complaint.

It's not the warranty that sells the product.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-08-2007, 11:07 PM:

With Xenon lamps...the warranty normally also covers the reflector which can more than double the cost of the replacement lamp.

A warranty is a statement of confidence in ones product too. I note that Christie actually INCREASED their 5KW lamp warranty as well as some of their other xenon lamps...odd since I've had very poor luck with 5KW from Christie not flickering before 500 hours.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-09-2007, 08:36 AM:

We have as of yet to have one Christie lamp to return for warranty claim this year... out of hundreds sold. We've had 0 Osrams as well but out of just about 50 sold. We quit selling LTI about 2 years ago.

Mark

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 07-09-2007, 10:36 PM:

I run 4k osrams 1 horizontal the other 4 vertical usually start them the in horizontal then move them to the verticals. I have always run almost all of the bulbs 4500-5000 hrs before they are removed. While I do get the occasional one that wander and comes out before. I have never had one go before the warranty period