Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong Switcher Failure

This is topic Strong Switcher Failure in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-10-2007, 03:35 AM:

Looks like I finally join the masses that have had Strong switchers conk out on them. Mine went tonight. Thankfully, it was a couple of minutes into our intermission clock.

This is a gray 6200019R, 7kW model. These are the ones that Strong was sending out after they discontinued support on the black 6284001 units (I still have two of them, working fine).

The "MAIN MOD" idiot light is lit. Is there a fix for this, or should I be calling for a new supply? The manual says it's a fuse. There are a million cover screws, revealing boxes with more screws. Gaaahhh.

Glad I keep spare power supplies. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-10-2007, 08:23 AM:

Jack,

Send it down and I'll repair it for you!! Our rate is alot less than Strongs rediclous rates. The only ones I won't touch are ones in which the PCB has literally burned up... but that is rare any more. A module light can mean several things... possibly just a blown fuse but that is rare... fuses usually blow because of a catastrophic part failure, each module has a fuse and there are 4 in yours. More likely its shorted diodes and switching transistors along with the blown fuse. Also failure of the inrush limiter is fairly common, they usually open up and you can get a mod faulure light on that too. Your switcher is nothing more than 2 sets of 3kw units in parallel driven by a common drive circuit.

Do you have surge protection on your main panel AND booth panel? Having proper surge protection is the key to not having switchers fail. They do not like ANY high voltage spikes on the incomming AC! Needless to say the dufus's that build these left that important thing out of the switcher [Roll Eyes]

. It could be built in!

P.S. I've never weighed the bunch of screws in one of those but its got to be upwards of 2 lbs.
Mark

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-10-2007, 01:38 PM:

Sounds like the better option.

Gotta find someone to pack this thing now!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-10-2007, 02:00 PM:

...and I fully agree with having the surge protection on the lines - I take care of an 8plex that has gone through more switchers than what I can count on my hand since the place has no surge support and the owners refuse to put in the protection in the lines..they think that the switcher blowing is a manufacturer defect more than a line defect.

They don't believe in dirty power I guess...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-10-2007, 02:58 PM:

Sure makes the case for an old fashioned, funky IREM that you repair yourself using parts kept in one end of a shoebox. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-10-2007, 03:52 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Sure makes the case for an old fashioned, funky IREM that you repair yourself using parts kept in one end of a shoebox. Louis

Some folks just fear the computer world....
Actually the Switchers are not at all hard nor expensive to repair. The parts are in reality about 1/4 the cost of a set of IREM diodes. The biggest difficulty is removing all the hardware.... mark all the panel ends so it all falls back together easily too. Repairing a switcher is no more difficult than dealing with those stupid IREM movable core tensioning screws. Parts for switchers also are super easy to get. I would be happy to give a mini-seminar on repairing them at the next Film-Tech Drink night if you'd like.
Mark

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-10-2007, 05:29 PM:

So, is there a book or manual or something about "how to diagnose and repair rectifier issues safely"? This is something that I would like to learn, but which no one has shown me how to do. Specifically, I'm interested in the old-style rectifiers, as they are more common, but anything would be useful.

Someone (Mark?) should do a short video about this topic. I'd buy a copy.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-10-2007, 05:59 PM:

I don't do videos... I already spent my time working in television [Eek!]

. As I said I would be happy to have a small seminar at Drink Night... next Showorst. It could be a BYOBS night.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-10-2007, 07:04 PM:

(I could come down to SLC, with a bunch of dead STRONG switchers that I have here, and do a fotoshoot/storytelling thingey at his shop for the forum..if Mark wants to do that ..)

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-10-2007, 07:08 PM:

quote: Markie-baby
I don't do videos...

That's okay, Mark. We've been sufficiently desensitized by your member picture. I think we can handle you on video. [Razz]

Really, let someone mic you and just roll a camera at the Drink.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-10-2007, 07:14 PM:

I still spec strickly magnetic rectifiers on all new builds
As for TVSS I really should not have to provide it based on what is the requirements of devices connected to any electrical service
which I believe even the NEC state shall not cause disruptions to other devices connected to the service

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-10-2007, 07:43 PM:

quote: Gordon McLeod
As for TVSS I really should not have to provide it based on what is the requirements of devices connected to any electrical service
which I believe even the NEC state shall not cause disruptions to other devices connected to the service

That may be true but a wise peraon includes it in any new build or major rebuild to safeguard equipment. With the piss poor power I've experienced in Canada I would think it a high priority to install them.

quote: Gordon McLeod
I still spec strickly magnetic rectifiers on all new builds

The solid state devices in magnatic rectifiers are NO LESS susceptable to incomming line spikes than are the solid state devices used in switchers. Actually the switcher diodes which are very high speed are probably less susceptable. They are the same PIV rating 1200 volts and 1600 volts as is used in most new magnetic rectifiers being built today. Line spikes can also be caused by other equipment within a given building, just another reason to include them as part of an installation.

quote: Tim Reed
Really, let someone mic you and just roll a camera at the Drink.

Tim... I would expect you to do it then... There's no way Joe's tape'n me!! I suspect it would come out looking like a wedding video.... [Eek!]

I have posted photos of the switcher's guts in past threads.....

Mark

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-10-2007, 08:42 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Tim... I would expect you to do it then... There's no way Joe's tape'n me!! I suspect it would come out looking like a wedding video....

Are you planning to wear a gown? [evil]

Seriously, though, if someone is willing to tape Mark's demonstration and already has a video camera, I'll happily offer to pay to rent a light kit and some good microphones for the day. It's cheaper than a trip to Vegas.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-11-2007, 09:26 AM:

If Mark is going to do the video I will be willing to loan the Pyrex lens used to capture my member picture. My wife says she wants it back so that she can continue to include me in family pictures. Louis

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 07-12-2007, 01:58 PM:

What surge protector is recommended? Leviton?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-12-2007, 07:14 PM:

Am not a big Leviton fan... I was the Colortran service guy in Salt Lake City when Leviton took over Colortran and they basically ruined the company. I generally avoid them and look for higher quality stuff. Most of the supressors going in out here are Square-D. The odd thing is that they are only across the three phase to ground... and not the lines to neutral. You would think that neutral would be involved somehow but its not. I can attest that they do work and have actualy witnessed one in person. The main thing here is to consult with a qualified electrician to spec. it in properly, there are many different sizes and types. You will also need a spare 3-pole breaker space in all the panels that you want to protect. The surge supressor itself HAS TO BE BREAKERED!! They sometimes fail catastrophically as in a direct lightning strike. If one leg of the supressor fails a light on the front comes on to indicate which phase of protection is bad. The supressor then has to be replaced but that sort of failure is quite rare. There is a theater south of Salt Lake City that I work on sometimes and they have the Square-D's on all the booth panels. I can probably call the operator there and get you the type number if need be.

I think this one is like the ones that are being installed. If not its very close to it.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-13-2007, 11:40 AM:

We use TVSS from united power
http://www.unitedpowercorp.com/tvsscp.htm

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 07-13-2007, 12:18 PM:

Mark, I would appreciate the type number if you get the chance.
Thank you.