Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Guard to Fix Base Scratches

This is topic Film Guard to Fix Base Scratches in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 08-05-2007, 04:57 PM:

So here is the situation. One of our prints has picked up some pretty noticeable base scratches during a show. We recently just took delivery of our first order of Film Guard and have been applying it using a cloth to the top and bottom of the prints when sitting in the platter (Our theater does not have any media cleaners) and have had good results so far.

I read that FG can work wonders at covering up base scratches, so I was wondering if it would still work well if I sprayed some FG onto a lint-free cloth and held it firmly on the film as it makes its way back to the platter from the projector (I figured this is the best spot due to the increased tension).

So would this work and if so, how many applications of the product would I need?

Thanks

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-05-2007, 05:04 PM:

You just need to get a Kelmar film cleaner. No way can you sit there for 2 hours and hand-clean a film as it runs and have any chance at doing a good enough job to make those base scratches disappear. Also the increased tension won't help.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 08-05-2007, 05:09 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
You just need to get a Kelmar film cleaner.

If only I wasn't laughed at every time I suggest this... oh well maybe this will make them see the use of one.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-05-2007, 05:09 PM:

And wouldn't holding it tightly be more likely to create some scratches, thereby defeating the entire purpose of using film guard to begin with? Because the regular film cleaners are rubbed against the film pretty lightly to avoid causing any problems like that and even then I've heard of people on here claim the kelmar cleansers do occasionally scratch prints (thankfully I've yet to experience this myself).

quote: Josh Rosen
If only I wasn't laughed at every time I suggest this... oh well maybe this will make them see the use of one.

Maybe you should work somewhere where people give a shit about their presentation then.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 08-05-2007, 05:10 PM:

by tightly I simply meant pressing the cloth against the film, I didn't mean to use excessive tension that could cause scratches. But yes, I see your point there as well, thanks for the tips [Smile]

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-05-2007, 05:13 PM:

I really think it's ridiculous that they would want to not clean their prints. That's just stupid.

Sure, the cleaners are expensive but it's one of those "one-time costs" for something you can use for years.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 08-05-2007, 05:16 PM:

I think the fact that we have 14 sets of PTR equipment lying in a cabinet in the booth might not be helping things...

I would even be happy if we just had one of the Kelmar cleaners for situations like this one.

Posted by Wyatt Copeland (Member # 4433) on 08-05-2007, 05:33 PM:

quote: Josh Rosen
If only I wasn't laughed at every time I suggest this... oh well maybe this will make them see the use of one.

My company refuses to fork the bill for cleaners either. Ever since I came to this company I've urged them to get at least one. I would get one of two responses: 1. What is that? or 2. We don't need them.
It is one of the most agrivating situations I've had working in movies. All of our projectors shed like crazy and, well, everything else that can go wrong with a non-cleaned print.
3 Miles down the road is a theatre using brand new christies and has gone digital as well. I don't see how my company can think they can compete using a dirty print.

I managed to get my hands on an old FC-1 and am waiting on a mounting bracket (my manager is going under the table on this with me). I'll be footing the money for film guard myself.

So..yeah believe it or not there really are companies who just don't give a you know what.

ok..done ranting.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-05-2007, 06:58 PM:

Wyatt, run it exclusively on one print you know will be around for a good long while starting with the first show, then at the end of it's run bring the district manager in there and point out the difference it makes against prints that don't even have half the number of passes (or the newest print for that matter). If the answer is still no, then there is simply no hope for whatever company you work for, as they obviously don't give a shit about their presentation.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 08-05-2007, 07:18 PM:

Probably it doesn't make sense economically, but perhaps there should be a bunch of loaner Kelmar cleaners kicking around the F-T community for situations like this.

--jhawk

Posted by Wyatt Copeland (Member # 4433) on 08-05-2007, 07:41 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
...then at the end of it's run bring the district manager in there and point out the difference it makes against prints that don't even have half the number of passes

Thats what I'm hoping to do. I really do doubt it will make a dent in their stubborn heads, but at least I tried.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 08-05-2007, 07:43 PM:

I just wished we had Film Guard at our theatre. My Tech doesn't even see the need for one, which I think is ridiculous.

Posted by Wyatt Copeland (Member # 4433) on 08-05-2007, 07:47 PM:

quote: Chad M Calpito
I just wished we had Film Guard at our theatre. My Tech doesn't even see the need for one, which I think is ridiculous

You work for the Franks too don't you! Haha. Joking.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-05-2007, 08:23 PM:

what'll be sad if these other form of circuits were being sold on to purchase PTR roller cleaners, which are tons cheaper than a Kelmar and find out that they wasted their money seeing that these things actually "transfer" dust from one end of the print to the other end.

Also, I could take a wild guess on this issue of why some circuits doesn't want to bother with these Kelmars is that it's more of a convenience item than a needed item and these companies bottom line is the dollar sign and all they see is numbers with a dollar sign next to them.

And, with these forms of operations, their theatres are run by "booth clowns" who'd prob wouldn't even shake a stick on having any form of a good presentation, let alone using any form of a film cleaning device, thus these devices are not a form of high priority to purchase.

Plus, if they don't keep prints as long as the large mainstream circuits, it could be their logic to not see the necessity of film cleaning...

...but these are just wild guesses.

-Monte

Posted by Wyatt Copeland (Member # 4433) on 08-05-2007, 11:37 PM:

I think my company just doesn't know what they are doing.

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 08-06-2007, 02:32 AM:

Kelmar transporters are cheaper than refunds. People expect at least as good as home cinema these days.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-06-2007, 08:58 AM:

While you have every right to make a post like the one mentioned above, one should always remember, this is a public forum. You never know if your boss might be reading it... Just a word for the wise...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-06-2007, 09:18 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Plus, if they don't keep prints as long as the large mainstream circuits, it could be their logic to not see the necessity of film cleaning...

Even that doesn't make sense. We play many movies on the break and we only keep them usually for two or sometimes three weeks, and we only play most prints nine or ten times a week. It's amazing the amount of stuff that will come off the print in that time with that few runs.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-06-2007, 10:59 AM:

Probably resistance to change... and maybe keeping the booth as uncomplicated for the popcorn jockies as possible. You know that if some of these companies put FG in their booths, somebody would be soaking the pads every time, the film would start jumping all over the screen, customers would go berserk and business would implode while waiting for the tech to figure out what was wrong with the intermittent!

Come to think of it... I wonder how well FG would have replaced running water on my kids' "Slip 'N Slide"??? That might have been fun, if not a bit smelly!

Posted by Wyatt Copeland (Member # 4433) on 08-06-2007, 11:35 AM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
somebody would be soaking the pads every time, the film would start jumping all over the screen

That is a valid concern there... I'd be the only one using it though if my plan goes through. There's only one other projectionist and I'm not about to ask him to learn something new (heaven forbid).
Haha good idea with the slip`n` slide. Be one expensive kiddy ride lubricant though!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-06-2007, 02:59 PM:

By the way for the archives, IF someone actually did that, the solution is to load up dry media pads and run the film through it once or twice until the jumping stopped (to wipe the excess off, even though it would still probably be way too much for an ideal cleaning job).