Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Norelco Platter System

This is topic Norelco Platter System in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008961

Posted by Fred Mossman (Member # 1822) on 10-23-2007, 05:54 PM:

Does anyone have experience with Norelco Platters? I have a friend that just purchased a single and it is currently running 60min reals. His intention is to replace one of the machines with a platter system and this is the first one hes found.

Unfortunately I've never used one. I am familiar with TECO, Strong, Balco and Christie.

Does anyone know how reliable they are or easy to fix if they do die?

Any info much appreciated.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-23-2007, 05:58 PM:

Which platter system is it... older with the seperate control box?? Or newer with out the control box? I still have two very old Norelco platter systems in Twin Falls and they are still running with the original motors. They've seen a few repairs but very few and have been in service since the mid 70's.

P.S. Steve Guttag is the ST platter expert on this site.

Mark

Posted by Fred Mossman (Member # 1822) on 10-23-2007, 06:10 PM:

I love this site. A reply within minutes. [Smile]

I really wish it would have been around when I actually worked in a booth full time.

I'm trying to find out some more info for what style / model they are. Just checked the rules and didn't see anything against this so, would $600 for a platter, make-up table, and some spare parts be considered a good deal for the Norelco?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-23-2007, 06:22 PM:

quote: Fred Mossman
I'm trying to find out some more info for what style / model they are. Just checked the rules and didn't see anything against this so, would $600 for a platter, make-up table, and some spare parts be considered a good deal for the Norelco?

For whatever it's worth, I've seen a Christie AW3 (which many of us here consider to be one of the best platters on the market, and which is a current product that is well supported by its manufacturer) sell for half that, complete with MUT.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-23-2007, 06:24 PM:

The ST-200 is a very good unit, but there's a lot that can go wrong with them since they are so elaborate. I always thought the feedout plates were a little on the chintzy side, though, and easily broken with normal (i.e. from average sprocket jockey) use.

While I am only familiar with two versions of the Norelco platter (both having outboard control stations - one with, I believe, 5 buttons per deck, the other with just 4), assuming parts are available, you will pay exhorbitantly for them.

A used Potts would probably be a better investment for the long-term, or as Scott noted, an AW-3 if you can find one.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-23-2007, 06:39 PM:

Personally I don't see any reason not to use the ST-200 if its in good running order. Yes, parts can be somewhat high priced if you order them from the US Distributer... perhaps you guys up north have a better link for getting parts direct from Germany than we have here in the States. That might make it a bit more feesable if repairs are ever needed... and yes, lke Tim says... its complicated to trouble shoot when it breaks down!!

A used AW-3...ok... but definately not a used Potts or Strong [Eek!]

.

Mark

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-23-2007, 06:56 PM:

Oh, they're not hard to work on if you know what you're doing, there's just more to go wrong with them than a Potts or Christie... but that's the rub. You have to find someone who's familiar with them, and most techs have probably never seen one.

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-24-2007, 06:27 AM:

On balance the ST200 is the best platter ever made in my opinion. Very relaible and smooth running but parts can be expensive.

However the later models started to use some electrical parts that were available off the shelf. The very early models used parts that were only available from Phillips/Kinoton/Norelco.

A case in point is the early version control panel with the piano keys which are no longer available! I have a brand new set sitting doing nothing if anyone is interested.

I've said before that the key feature I like is that the platters cannot take off at super fast speeds, unlike just about every other system out there. Also when the projector motor is turned off the platter feed also switches off.

The control box appears very complicated inside but once you understand how the system works and if you have a manual it's not that hard to work out what is causing a problem. Quite some time ago I gave a very detaied account of the operation of the ST200 which may be of interest.

http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008194#000001

Just like everything else thay have their quirks but all in all a good buy if you can get one in good working order.

[ 10-24-2007, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Ken McFall ]

Posted by Benjamin John Doman (Member # 4365) on 10-24-2007, 01:19 PM:

Hi,
These platters are indeed the best ever made!! They were extensively used by ABC / Cannon etc over here as well as some Odeon’s. The old motors are no longer available, and the new type are not compatible with the old gear box, so if you buy one you need to buy a gear box as well. Saying that they rarely go. The rheostats in the control box, platter and mut are the same, as are the rectifier card and relays which makes fault finding simpler. All can be interchanged. The two main contactors in the control box are available as modern components ‘of the shelf’ from electrical suppliers, but are taller so need to be mounted slightly differently. In the event of a feed / take up fault, the mut can be used to control the platter plates. VERY reliable, easy to fix (as Ken says, once you look at the drawings) and very kind on the film. Maybe not the cheapest, but you get what you pay for. [Smile]

Ben

Posted by Fred Mossman (Member # 1822) on 10-24-2007, 09:11 PM:

So the consensus seems to be that they are a good reliable platter, but they are slightly more complicated and parts could be hard to come by and/or expensive?

I've heard back and they are the older style with the separate control boxes.

I've also browsed the ST200 Manual on the site. Am I correct in that these platters are connected to the projector motor? (thats sort of what it sounded like when I skimmed the manual) The projectors in use are Century's.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-24-2007, 10:08 PM:

Yes, Fred. A relay has to be fired from the projector motor circuit to "tell" the platter to go, since the feedout variac has to start in a predetermined position.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 10-24-2007, 10:21 PM:

I used these a lot back in the late '70's for 35 and 70mm film. The rollers are still the best in the business. Norelco did not like swivel rollers so the platter needs to be square to the projector. This can all be modified with some work.

The main weakness was the a little motor that ran a little variac inside the control unit that set the payout speed. The shear pin in the coupling would break and cause all sorts of hell and end up being replaced with a nail or drill bit to get back on the screen.

The take up Variac would also blow up from a short or misuse and cost a small fortune to replace. An American style Varaic with larger gauge wire could be used, again with some work.

The motor feature was a pain back in the day but proved to be a good feature to have when Mylar film arrived. There are still a few running in drive In's in CA.

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 10-25-2007, 05:06 AM:

Yes the motor contactor does start the feed plate and in the same way the take-up arm controls the motor contactor. If the take-up arm pulls back due to film break or no film laced over it, the projector stops/will not run.

There are possibly many hundreds of the original st200's in use here in the uk many with original parts having suffered no major failures.

One of the plus points about the st200 is that they don't drift as parts age or the temperature changes. Once set they reamin stable.

I've only had one variac fail which was on a first gereration model that was possibly third or forth hand when I installed it.

If it was me I'd grab it, but then there is a very large user base in the uk and parts are not that difficult to obtain.

Regards.

[ 10-25-2007, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Ken McFall ]

Posted by Fred Mossman (Member # 1822) on 10-29-2007, 11:01 AM:

Thanks for the info guys. Got some pictures of this one and the control boxes look like they went through WW3. They were smashed, broken, the buttons missing or held in with tape, etc. So I told my buddy to skip it. God only knows what shape the rest of it was in.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 11-04-2007, 05:13 PM:

One ST 200 have been running here since 1998, One ST 200-E since 1999. No trouble ever. ST 200 have since been altered with electronic center (take-up-) unit, replacing the original, mechanical one - No other parts needed yet.
As stable and reliable as everything else from Kinoton. Highly reccommended ! [thumbsup]