Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Orcon 1000B Igniter board

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Posted by David Ahrens (Member # 2948) on 11-30-2007, 08:51 AM:

I have a Orcon 1000B lamphouse with a faulty igniter board, the transformer has burnt out. I have been offered a replacement board for a fair price but it is from a 120v US version lamphouse but mine is running on 240v UK.

What I need to know is does this matter for the igniter board as it is after the main power supply ?

Posted by Peter David Bruce (Member # 4447) on 11-30-2007, 09:27 AM:

General rule of thumb is that the voltage should match on all components...

it could be fine, but I would wait for some more answers on here before making a decision. Ive never had one burn out.. so ive never had to browse replacements.

Can you get a replacement of your one? Or is the part not available?

Pete

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-30-2007, 12:49 PM:

It is POSSIBLE that the two boards are the same except for the connections on the transformer input. Be careful;

No more parts at the factory, so be careful what you reject. Even the 110 volt one will have usable parts. Louis

Posted by David Ahrens (Member # 2948) on 01-29-2008, 05:00 AM:

I finally managed to get a new Igniter board for the Orc. But as I said before it is from a US 110v version. I fitted it last night with a lamp that is supposed to be good. But unfortunately the lamp house strikes the lamp and I get a bright flash but the lamp does not ignite.

Although I cannot rule out a faulty lamp I feel it could be becasue the ingniter board was from a 110v version. The Amp meter hardly moves when it strikes.

Any Ideas ?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-29-2008, 07:05 AM:

Use a voltage step-down transformer? Kinda awkward, but if parts are no longer available ...

Posted by David Ahrens (Member # 2948) on 01-29-2008, 08:03 AM:

John the lamphouse is a UK 240v version so I dont need to correct the Input voltage or do you mean to use a step down transformer to feed 110v directly into the igniter board ?

Can anyone tell me as I have not tried to measure it what the voltage is to the transformer on the Igniter board ? Is it just straight through mains 110v or in the UK model 240v ?

The transformer on the original UK version board has the part number of 1141813-3 but on the new US version its 1141813-1 . Does anyone know what the difference is?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-29-2008, 09:17 AM:

quote: David Ahrens
The transformer on the original UK version board has the part number of 1141813-3 but on the new US version its 1141813-1 . Does anyone know what the difference is?

The only difference is going to be the primary winding of the transformer. It'll be 240 volts AC instead of 120 volts AC. You may even be able to find a general purpose transformer from a place like Farnell or similar company to substitute for the original. If you have the US version measure the secondary AC voltage whilst running it at 120 volts and see if there is a sutible x available that may work. Yes, its possible to outboard the tranny outside the lamphouse if the x is too large but I believe there are relays on the board up front that control that transformer... IE: shut it off when the Low Voltage DC takes over.

There is a place here in the states that custom winds trannys for a reasonable price. They could more than likely make you a new one. I've had them wind transformers in the past... Edcor Custom Transformers

However, since your lamp IS flashing it should light... so check out the following...

Check the no-load DC at the front side of the blocking diode on the dividing wall of the lamphouse. If that diode either shorts or opens up you will get only the flashing of the lamp you mention. Use an 85 amp stud mount to replace it if it's bad. BTW: There is a seperate higher voltage DC no-load supply >100 volts thats under the lamp reflector up front. The heavy main SCR regulated supply in the rear of the lamphouse is strictly low operating DC voltage... hence the blocking diode to keep em seperated. High voltage from the ignitor ionizes the gas... the no-load DC causes the ionized gas to conduct and then the LV DC takes over to run the lamp continously.

Hope this helps....

Mark

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-29-2008, 09:20 AM:

I've never actually worked on a ORC 1000 lamphouse, so I'm not exactly sure how it is wired. They were/are quite popular though; I've seen many in smaller theaters and home screening rooms.

But, yes, I mean to use a step down transformer to reduce the 220 VAC down to 110VAC just for the igniter board. I don't think you would need too big of a transformer since the igniter is only used for a short time (2-3 seconds.)

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 01-29-2008, 02:45 PM:

Also check that the Control Board Potentiometer setting.

In the Manual it advises also check the Control Board Card.

Loose connection in DC Current circuit (CR1 - CR4)

Measure Resistance Values.

Posted by David Ahrens (Member # 2948) on 01-29-2008, 03:07 PM:

Thanks Mark and John,

I measured the input to the transformer tonight and it is 220v so I assume that is too high for the primary winding on the transformer. I do not at the moment have a 110v supply to apply directly to the igniter. But as Mark said I think the relay is supposed to control the transformer. So bypassing it would not help. Could it be a faulty relay ? How do you test that ?

Mark I found what I assume is the blocking diode just under the relay. I took it out of circuit to test and it is measuring fine.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-29-2008, 06:14 PM:

No, The blocking diode is on the wall that divides the front and back half of the lamphouse. Its a stud mount diode... large wire soldered to the input side of it.

Its possible that the control rely is bad although I've never seen one fail. What you should do is measure and see if there is indeed 220 volts AC across the old transformer primary in there before you make any decisions as to the relay being good or bad. Indication of no 220 volts would certainly be a good time to measure back through that relay board to see where you loose it. Again, I think if that tranny is really bad that EDCOR could make you a new one for not over $100.00 US. All they would need to see is the good 120 volt version,... they could just make the primary 220 volts for you instead.

At any rate knowing the no-load DC voltages would help alot... Measure from ground(negative lamp support) to the center stud on the blocking diode on the main power supply side... you should get about >=30 volts dc. Also measure fromn ground to the other side of the diode... you should get get >= +100 volts DC for perhaps just a brief period after which it may slowly discharge. If you hear a ping and the lamp flashes and the spark gap flashes too like its trying to start then the high voltagen ignitor is doing its job just fine. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MEASURE THAT HIGH IGNITION VOLTAGE, ITS ABOUT 50KV AC. IT WILL INSTANTLY FRY YOUR METER!!

ALSO DON'T WORK ON THIS LAMPHOUSE WHILE STANDING ON A CONCRETE FLOOR AND ALWAYS KEEP ONE HAND IN ONE POCKET WHILE MEASURING ANY VOLTAGES... ESPECIALLY DC!!

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-30-2008, 12:32 PM:

I have used a neon sign transformer in many orc ignitors to provide the 10Kv to the tesla coil

Posted by David Ahrens (Member # 2948) on 01-30-2008, 01:33 PM:

Thanks again Mark, I measured the voltage on the diode I am getting a pretty steady 44v on the psu side and as you said >= +100v on the other side. So do you think the igniter should be ok ?