This is topic I thinks I solved my dailies projector situation! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 12-21-2007, 12:16 AM:
 
I just bought another dallies projector. It is kinda an Volkswagen version of Mark's all in one "Warnerphponic" Century SA-interlock projector/sound reproducer thought up by Steve Kraus:



Mine is a bit smaller and more wieldy. It's an Atlas studio modified dallies projector from the late 80s. It has a SuperSimplex projection head and both optical and mag reel sound capabilities. I need to upgrade to a Xenon light source either install a new lamphouse (preferably a ORC if I can find one at a good price) or modify the incandescent one. I also need to install a red reader, Dolby CP-50 or 65 with 280T SR cards, an Isco anamorphic lens and an amp with speakers all on casters and portable of course along with a 14ft portable projection screen! Here's what it looks like and I THINK it's gonna be EXACTLY what i need after I'm through upgrading it:













The Simplex gate is modified and will allow projection in both forward and reverse. It also came with 6 aperture plates and a slew of spare parts. I also got it at a fair enough price so it's worth doing all the mods I'll have to do.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2007, 07:39 AM:
 
Unweildly yes! But now you're more on track. At least you'll have a steady enough image to be able to tell whats going on. You can also add Posi-Trol sprockets to that projector if you want to.

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 12-21-2007, 08:34 PM:
 
Actually I said MORE WIELDY than your gorgeous Century SA setup but I am glad to hear you're conformation that this should work for me. (It woulda sucked if I had taken yet ANOTHER mis-step!) I'm REALLY jazzed about getting it. Is it possible to upgrade the lamphouse to a Xenon fixture or does it pretty much have to be replaced? also the guy I bought it from, couldn't identify the sound head,(he thinks it could be custom made) am I going to have problems installing a modern reader? I noticed there seemed to be some room in the cabinet, do you think it would be a mistake to try and install the Dolby unit and amp in there and should they be installed in a separate roll around rack or will they be OK if I were to increase the ventilation in it? ALSO he said the mag sound had been disconnected but was still in the machine and that in might require rewiring, How big a problem am I looking at if it DOES require work, is it complicated or relatively simple to rebuild these if they need it. Also how hard is it and how much would it cost to add Posi-Trol sprockets to the projector? Thanks-Steve
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-22-2007, 09:24 AM:
 
You will need to buy or build some sort of lamphouse table to mount a Xenon onto. If you go the ORC route they are quite heavy... around 85 lbs or so. So take that into account.

It looks like it has a Simplex slit lens mount and a Kelmar solor cell but a close up of the sound reproducer would help there. If theya re standard parts and I'm pretty sure Atlas did use standard parts down there then installing a red reader is a cinch. If its what I think it is then you could use a BACP RSTR reverse scanner kit in there.

You can install Posi-Trol sprockets on the upper and lower projector sprockets anytime... If the intermittent has a screw and nut holding the sprocket on then you can also install one there. The intermittent one is the more desirable location for the Posi-Trol as it eliminates about 98% of any sideweave... Adding the upper also helps get rid of the last little bit of weave, the lower sprocket is not as critical but its still nice to have it there.

If your intermittent has it's sprocket held on by taper pins then you just need to locate another movement that has the later style "screw and nut" sprocket. You will have to tear the movement down in order to install the sprocket. There are no more taper pin sprockets available. Posi-Trol
 

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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 12-22-2007, 10:05 PM:
 
Can you recommend a better alternative (again price being a factor) than the ORC? After all, I probably only need 500 to 1000 watts. When the unit physically arrives here, I'll take some more pics of the guts and see what you think. Also I looked at the Posi-trol site, which of these would work for the SuperSimplex? Thanks-Steve
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-23-2007, 08:52 AM:
 
The casting parts are from Simplex so a reverse scan could be fitted.
I have a rebuilt intermittent with a positrol sprocket if you are interested.
If the mounted centerline from the center of the siteglass or aperture is at least 9 inches then it would be easy to mount an extension plate on the rear to support a small xenon lamphouse.
The Atlas was a common dailies projector at one time in Los Angeles.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-23-2007, 10:05 AM:
 
None of the red readers will fit without some hassle. The issue is the solar cell or LED mount. It will need a riser of some sort as the soundhead baseplate is lower than that of the Simplex.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-23-2007, 10:11 AM:
 
There's always the Jaxlight or Marble LED slit lens option, too.

If he's just running his own films, however, he won't need an LED reader, as long as he orders silver or high-magenta tracks.

On the topic of dailies equipment, here's my home setup (don't laugh, please):



I'm told that the bases are Kelmars, but I would be interested to know if anyone can provide more information about when and why these were made. They can only accommodate 1000' reels of mag, which seems odd to me. Also, the projectors have the cutout in the back for the mag film to enter below the intermittent, but no cutout in the front for the picture to exit. Is it possible that this was a conversion that was started but never finished, or is there some other reason why this might have been done?

Suppose that someday I wanted to upgrade to larger lamphouses (e.g. Super Lume-X, etc.)--are larger lamphouse tables available somewhere as a stock item, or would something have to be custom made? The Cinemeccanica lamps that I currently have will only accommodate bulbs up to 1600w.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-23-2007, 12:15 PM:
 
Hey, Scott,

Is that power supply really bleeding onto the floor??

Do you screen a lot of horror films?

Just kidding.

KEN
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-23-2007, 12:44 PM:
 


Thankfully, no. The paint on the floor is just chipping.

Also, the fire rollers are long gone and DTS readers have been installed.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-23-2007, 01:14 PM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

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the projectors have the cutout in the back for the mag film to enter below the intermittent, but no cutout in the front for the picture to exit.

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Scott, isn't there an extra roller or some alternate path for the pix to take down and out the bottom of that soundhead?

If not, it's easy enough to just hacksaw a slot in the front of the projector and add some platter rollers on a small bracket.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-23-2007, 01:26 PM:
 
Tim -- you may be right. There's no extra roller, but it looks as if the picture might be able to just barely make it directly down through the soundhead, if the solar cell bracket were narrower:



I put in the LED readers recently, so it obviously wouldn't work with these in place. I don't have the mag heads, anyway...I was mostly just curious about how it would work if I had the right parts.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2007, 02:34 PM:
 
Those are indeed Kelmar bases... Call Tom for more info on those but I think Andy designed those back in the early or mid 70's. Nice setup!

Mark
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-23-2007, 04:51 PM:
 
The Atlas would need a little machine work...but it should not be a deal breaker. Andy designed that interlock based originally for a New York Ad agency. He had it designed so that the projector/soundhead was balanced on the base and he had the drive motor in the base so as not to throw off the balance (not sure if Norwood's version is set up that way). The playback between magnetic and optical was a custom mount in which you push-pull a part to play either format.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-23-2007, 07:12 PM:
 
Hey, Scott!

Yes, look at the angle on the termination panel cover. This should be the pix path:


 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-23-2007, 07:15 PM:
 
Scott,

It it likely that the mag film was not supposed to exit the front...it would use the soundhead. The picture and sound likely shared the film path in the soundhead and separated at the exit of the soundhead.

Alternately, the picture may have exited out the rear (with the assistance of additional rollers)...really, the sky is the limit on creating a film path. All of the Century double systems I've seen resembeled Mark's set up though
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-23-2007, 07:58 PM:
 
Tim has it figured Note also the lower damper roller is elongated, that was to give a tighter wrap when the mag head was in use....
Note the "C" slots with the allen type screws on the base to allow the projector to work on the the mechanism center of gravity when titled.
 

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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 12-24-2007, 04:39 AM:
 
Richard, I am interested in your rebuilt intermittent. How much do you want for it? Between Christmas and the projector, I've pretty much blown my wad for bout 3 or 4 weeks but if you can work with me a little maybe we can work something out. Also, you mentioned machine work, what machine work needs to be done on the Atlas? Does anybody have an alternative suggestion for a Xenon lamphouse, the 85lb ORC is a little heavy and I don't want the projector to be off balance. If it fell over while I was pushing it, I'd probably cry or start throwing thing or hitting my head against the wall. Any inexpensive solutions?

Mark I did a Google search for the BACP RSTR reverse scanner kit, got 5 hits NONE of which helped me. Where's the best place to pick one up at and (and I'm afraid to ask this) how much can I expect to pay?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-24-2007, 10:07 AM:
 
Here is the HTTP for BACP... Its a bit unusual... perhaps Sam just has a home computer or server set up as a node...

http://216.92.79.66/

Most dealers sell em for around $650.00... less is a better deal of course. The spacer you need could be made by any local machine shop. It just needs to conform to the mounting foot of the BACP LED and be of the correct thickness. If you could remove and just send me the sound head section I'd be happy to install and align the BACP for you at no charge.

The main reason I went with the old Warnerphonic sound reproducers is because of the added rotary stabilizer. All other dailies projectors including the Strong kludge, Atlas and others have pretty high wow and flutter. This additional stabilizer resulted in very low wow and flutter specs and it was essentially a Davis Tight Loop System which none of the others were. My bigggest problem was manufacturing the large rotarty stabilizer and drum that fit up front in the sound head... I ended up rough machining them myself... the drum was brass and the film drum that was pressed into it was stainless steel so they were both non magnetic... and then I had another machine shop grind out the bore for the bearings very accurately on both sides. They pressed the bearings in place and then they ground the entire outside relief of the drum itself while rotating it on the actual abec 7 bearings the drum would be spinning on. This resulted in a less than .0001 runout which was about 5 times better than the original Warnerphonic drums.

Mark Gulbrandsen
Claco Equipment And Service
801-355-1250
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-24-2007, 11:40 AM:
 
http://bacpinc.com works.
--jhawk
 

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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 12-25-2007, 03:12 AM:
 
GREAT, thanks for the links or link, guys. It'll probably be a little while before I can change out the optical reader. My priority will be to change the lamphouse and get the mag sound working first, then probably install Posi-Trol sprockets if I can afford them, then get the Dolby squared away then the BACP RSTR reverse scanner kit but now I at least have the link. COOL!
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-31-2007, 06:59 PM:
 
In case anyone cares, Tim is right (as usual). I tried this last night and the picture can indeed go straight through the soundhead as he indicated.

I assume that one would normally thread the soundtrack first, line up the start mark with the mag head, and then thread the picture with "picture start" in the gate, correct?

The 1000' reel limitation would make sense if these bases were designed for an ad agency, but it would seem to make them not-very-useful for feature film production (at least not for preview screenings).

The motors are indeed mounted in the bases, with an extra-long poly-V belt to drive the picture head (these are direct-drive Century MSAs). The end result isn't quite balanced (it's heavy on the operator side), but it works well enough. The real issue with the bases is that they are very heavy and don't disassemble in any obvious way (i.e. they aren't portable at all). Also, adjusting the tilt requires changing the length of the takeup belt. On the other hand, the entire setup takes up (relatively) little space and is ideal for home use. I mounted each machine on a furniture dolly and everything (including sound rack) rolls nicely into a corner.
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-01-2008, 01:01 PM:
 
I too have one of these Atlas/Simplex machines.
Mine is equipped with an XL head. Part of the XL casting in front is cut out to allow film bypass when running double-system mag tracks. You can see the two additional rollers just below the focus knob on the front of the projector.

This picture was taken about 20years ago (look! I still have hair! ) just after I bought the machine from a production house here in San Francisco for $3,000. I have the original bill from Atlas which shows they bought it for $11,000 as equipped here. Atlas was located in Culver City CA, but I've never been been able locate any real other info on them. I tried contacting them shortly after I bought this machine but they were already out of business.

This was the way I got the machine. I've since added a larger
lamphouse, converted it to handle larger reels and added both
dolby and 4 track mag penhouses. (and yes, that is a cat on top)
Yes, I know this was not the "recommended" way to thread the machine when running single system. Atlas threading diagram would put the take up reel on the center spindle on the bottom, but the way shown here was quicker/easier for me & you didn't have to bend way over to thread reel.

I used to work for Francis Ford Coppola and he had one of these up in his house in Rutherford, CA and two more in his screening room at Zoetrope studios here in San Francisco. Until recently, those were the only other ATLAS machines I've seen.
The Zoetrope machines were also equipped with selsyn motors so they could do multi-trak playback sync-locked to external mag decks. They were also equipped with wired remote control boxes so that all projector functions (except focus) could be controlled from one of the seats in the back of Zoetrope's screening room.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-01-2008, 01:17 PM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

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I assume that one would normally thread the soundtrack first, line up the start mark with the mag head, and then thread the picture with "picture start" in the gate, correct?

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quote: Mark Gulbrandsen

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It looks like it has a Simplex slit lens mount and a Kelmar solor cell but a close up of the sound reproducer would help there

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Here's a picture of an unmodified ATLAS Mag/Optical Reproducer

The red triangle is on the mag head. (Bypassed in this pic)

Also, just for fun- here's the "Steam Pressure Guage" on my Atlas

It's mounted between the Ampex mag sound penthouse
& changeover interface. Totally non-functional but
looks cool there!
 

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Posted by Steve Beverly (Member # 4540) on 01-01-2008, 09:35 PM:
 
THAT IS very COOL!!!! I woulda like to have had an XL but as they say wish in one hand.... > It's also very cool to know Coppola used the Atlas as well and had 3 of them so it musta worked fine for him. I had the honor of meeting him once when I went to a looping session for Apocalypse Now with Larry Fishburne who was a very good friend of mine.
So apparently you like these machines a great deal. The one you have looks a great deal bigger than mine (though I'm just guessing, it hasn't arrived here yet) is that the XL head primarily you think? Have you noticed any idiosyncrasies about these machines I should know about or that would help me? Thanks-Steve
 

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